Old skin (NO SSS)???

Discussions regarding Materials, Material-Compounds or Shaders, etc.
Letterbox
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Re: Old skin (NO SSS)???

Post by Letterbox » 13 Jul 2009, 16:04

Hirazi Blue wrote:My sincere thanks for understanding...
I may be experience an "off day"... X(

Maybe I really was on the wrong track, but I was looking for something more or less directly render tree related, even if I still had to implement the ideas myself... My problem with true art is mainly that I can appreciate it, but severely doubt ever being able to recreate stuff like that (being a self-confessed dilettante)... But hey, some new ideas (and new good friends, I hope :D ), have come from this... We'll see where it takes me... ;)

being a self-confessed dilettante is not a problem, but to be an Excellent self-confessed dilettante, takes a bit of work. :)

and thats rubbish that you cant ever recreate the stuff, we never believe that, look at what we achieved in 3 months. http://www.letterboxanimationstudios.com/RM/index.php

So dont give up hope.

As for the problem let me explain again, old masters used 3 layers of paint to get good skin looks, and if you look on even comic books you can see that the colours are NOT just one flat colour. Now they do this my mixing photoshop layers. You'll do this by mixing phongs. old master by mixing paint. Same difference really.

As for what three colours, I cant remember off the top of my head. But since SSS is available, you can select those colour swatches and then plug those into the colours of the phongs.

Or you could scan/camera a comic book cover, and sample 3 different area's of a characters skin.

So you'll need a mix8 and only use three layers (see the similarity to the SSS??)

Try that out see it it gets you what you want.

Cheers
Terry

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Hirazi Blue
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Re: Old skin (NO SSS)???

Post by Hirazi Blue » 13 Jul 2009, 16:23

Okay, but I've tried something similar with 2 layers, using Phongs, but somehow the specular never quite felt right, while the other extreme, using Lamberts, obviously left me without any specular, which also doesn't seem correct... :-\
Stay safe, sane & healthy!

Letterbox
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Re: Old skin (NO SSS)???

Post by Letterbox » 13 Jul 2009, 16:25

Hirazi Blue wrote:Okay, but I've tried something similar with 2 layers, using Phongs, but somehow the specular never quite felt right, while the other extreme, using Lamberts, obviously left me without any specular, which also doesn't seem correct... :-\
Well, why not mix and match 2 lamberts and one blinn, the blinn being the topmost... see how that works out. (remember skin only has spec on the topmost layer :) )

Cheers
Terry

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Hirazi Blue
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Re: Old skin (NO SSS)???

Post by Hirazi Blue » 13 Jul 2009, 16:27

blinn? Why didn't I think about that? (Ah: dilettante!) Thanks, I'll try that...
Stay safe, sane & healthy!

Letterbox
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Re: Old skin (NO SSS)???

Post by Letterbox » 13 Jul 2009, 19:45

Hirazi Blue wrote:blinn? Why didn't I think about that? (Ah: dilettante!) Thanks, I'll try that...
Thinking about this while working, you also want to make the topmost (blinn) somewhat transparent, and the one beneath some what but lesser, just like if you cut some skin off your arm and hold it to the light.

I dont suggest trying this... it might ruin the carpet ;)

Cheers
Terry

Edit: Well Mr Blue, are you going to post up some results?

j3st3r
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Joined: 11 Jun 2009, 09:13

Re: Old skin (NO SSS)???

Post by j3st3r » 16 Jul 2009, 10:49

For skin the best is still to use the ez_fast_skin_d shader. And there are some really good explanatory webpage on mymentalray.com featuring each aspects of the shader.

The main importance of the shader is that it not just a huge mixer compound, but it blurs your shading according to the radii you set. Skin has three important layer, the outer, the epidermis, the subdermis. The outer is rather tranlucent layer, that reflects a certain amount of light, and transparent to another certain amount of light. The shading on this layer is hard, there is no scattering. The next layer is about 8mm thick layer, this is tranlucent also, but it scatters the light (blurs the shadow!!!), the next is about 2.5 cm (depending where it is) and scatters the light more. As far as I know the outmost layer is desaturated, grayish, bluish in color, the epidermis is more saturated, while the subdermis is orange and red toned. If you do a slight math, you will realize that this setup imitates that the skin has a reddish terminator (where the light turns into shadow) as it is expected. It is hard to simulate with standard render tree setups.

If you want to build your own stuff, you may consider using architectural material as well, since it has roughness proerty on the diffuse component, and that's better than a simple Lambert shading. (Oren Nayar is the best to emulate the skin velvety attribute)

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Hirazi Blue
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Re: Old skin (NO SSS)???

Post by Hirazi Blue » 16 Jul 2009, 11:17

Could you please provide a direct link to the mymentalray-page, as I for one do not seem to get past the CAPTCHA X( they use on their search-page? 8-}
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Deracus
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Location: Leipzig, Germany

Re: Old skin (NO SSS)???

Post by Deracus » 16 Jul 2009, 12:10

j3st3r wrote:For skin the best is still to use the ez_fast_skin_d shader. And there are some really good explanatory webpage on mymentalray.com featuring each aspects of the shader.
I can´t find anything about that shader on this site. I tried the search in the Shaders-Section as well as in the forums and side-wide...

The only thing i could find was:

dt3dSkin

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Hirazi Blue
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Re: Old skin (NO SSS)???

Post by Hirazi Blue » 16 Jul 2009, 20:35

Well, at last I found time to find the mentioned file:

it's currently residing at mediafire.com: ez_sss_fast_skin_d

@j3st3r, might the thread you are refering to, be the one at XSIBase?
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j3st3r
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Re: Old skin (NO SSS)???

Post by j3st3r » 21 Jul 2009, 08:44

The shader is on XSIBASE but the description is here:

http://mymentalray.com/index.php?option ... &Itemid=55

When I read through I had some aha!! feelings :)

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Hirazi Blue
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Re: Old skin (NO SSS)???

Post by Hirazi Blue » 21 Jul 2009, 09:08

That looks real useful, thanks for the link! :-bd
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sbowling
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Joined: 10 Jun 2009, 05:20

Re: Old skin (NO SSS)???

Post by sbowling » 14 Aug 2009, 04:06

Letterbox wrote:
use a phongs
Phong is probably the last shader I would use for getting any kind of realistic skin.

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