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 Post subject: Software diffusion
PostPosted: 08 Apr 2012, 00:57 
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Only my curiosity, but is possible know the software diffusion? I'm very curios about. My curiosity born from some simple search I did in different forums (polycount, cgfeedback, cgtalk etc.), and searching the word "softimage" or "XSI" i found, in major part, only old topic and really few discussion where is mentioned expressed XSI or softimage (many, major part, are maya/3dsm discussion where, sporadically someone mentioned softimage)

So, exist some official/unofficial chart about?


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 Post subject: Re: Software diffusion
PostPosted: 08 Apr 2012, 01:30 
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AD will never give precise datas about it, you can check Softimage diffusion on those 2 websites:

http://monophyl.com/?p=794

http://www.cgstudiomap.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Software diffusion
PostPosted: 08 Apr 2012, 10:56 
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thanks Max

From CGstudio Map I obtained this data:

1) Maya studios: 835
2) 3d Studio Max studios: 756
3) Luxology Modo: 531
3) Lightwave: 531 (based from this site data, every studio based on lightwave have, also, modo)
4) Softimage studios: 329
5) Houdini: 116

This data are related to studios so, I image, don't take in account any freelancers around the world. In this case I think Lightwave and Modo market share quote rise up considerably (I think this two software are more aimed, for price and solutions, to freelance)

Strange Cinema 4d result: if searching Cinema 4d obtaining only a single studio (!), if I write only Cinema obtain only 5 studio, if search only 4d obtain 532 studio

For this site, no one studio adopt Blender, carrara, poser and strata 3d (but, also, no one using Unity or Urealm, so videogames studio are not contemplated?

If this data are a bit reliable, now understood why on others site softimage is ignored or considered moribund, only houdini seems having a less market share, but it is a more expensive and specialized software (I don't know now, but for me softimage is a generalist software very capable in many fields)

Now I'm curios to know softimage and maya market share before acquisition. A friend of mine states that maya/alias was in terrible financial situation and without AD for sure would not be saved from bankruptcy


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 Post subject: Re: Software diffusion
PostPosted: 08 Apr 2012, 17:25 
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I am merely guessing here (or just recalling info badly?), but I think your friend is talking about Alias "original" parent company SGI, that was in very bad financial situation by the time they sold Alias. But they didn't sell it to Autodesk but to a group of investors who seemed to have turned a profit when selling it to Autodesk in the end... (But that's what investors do). The situation at Avid was somewhat similar, but they did sell Softimage to Autodesk directly (at a lower price than Alias).

And as to the numbers of seats used worldwide: studio lists are obviously (as you already stated) no clear indication of the numbers of freelancers using the products. And studio lists sometimes muddle the fact, that most studios use multiple softwares.

A very, very long time ago (before/around the Softimage aqcuisition) there once was an "official" list compiled by a research company, ranking 3d software by actual seats IIRC. This list was highly debatable and thus highly debated, but I cannot seem to find it anymore. Blender came out first, Max 3rd IIRC, I believe Maya was in the top 10 and Softimage fell just outside the 10 ten rankings... (But I am not very certain about the actual ranks and it was like I already stated based on research done "a very, very long time ago"). The main problem with that list, again IIRC, was that it didn't differentiate between commercial use and those pesky hobbyists (like myself).
;)


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 Post subject: Re: Software diffusion
PostPosted: 08 Apr 2012, 19:21 
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Soft is a niche software thanks god, less diffusion the better. Look what we having now that we got some visibility and more users using it: a view cube, a useless HQviewport, maya/max navigation viewport sets. Whats next? Shiny icons that slow UI down.

When something gets a lot of diffusion is widely used by everyone from a 12 years kid to a 70 years old man. Sadly many people contribute to ruine the quality and professional of the software itself. I hope it wont end like 3ds max or maya, stackin tools without sense one on top of another. Look at houdini, being a niche software is just good, not bad.

Happy easter all.

p.s. yeah i'm still disappointed from last "release".


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 Post subject: Re: Software diffusion
PostPosted: 08 Apr 2012, 20:38 
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I think si-community member luceric mentioned 80% for Max and Maya, the rest of all others. I think it is something like that.
It's really not a secret, Softimage always had a very small number of users, even in Foundation times. If you count ICE into SI skill, this number become even smaller since V 7.0. Great software when you're in me-and-my-fence mode, but how to find a few more warriors ...

I always had impression, small number is somehow intentional. There is "trademark" of "different software for power users, proud of their skills", which probably doesn't fiti nto expectation of majority of users, nowadays. I'd also believe Softimage always will find *enough* of people who want this "different".

Now the question is, what is 3d software. Does Rhino3d fits there - with their "well over 150K" user base , Vray connection, so on.. Also, all those 2d artists who started 3d in zBrush, as well as intention to raise zBrush into complete 3d app - based on completely different concept. We will see...


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 Post subject: Re: Software diffusion
PostPosted: 08 Apr 2012, 22:01 
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Maximus wrote:
Soft is a niche software

I don't think Softimage is a niche software, it just sells badly... ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Software diffusion
PostPosted: 08 Apr 2012, 22:17 
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Nizar wrote:
Now I'm curios to know softimage and maya market share before acquisition. A friend of mine states that maya/alias was in terrible financial situation and without AD for sure would not be saved from bankruptcy


Alias (or Alias Wavefront, as it was) flourished under SGI but then things started to go 'wrong' when SGI started to struggle with the emergence of PC based workstations and they became cash strapped, so as Hirazi says, SGI sold Alias to an investment group which was Accel-KKR and a Canadian Pension fund, but less than a year later Alias was sold to Autodesk.
Ownership may have been rocky, but Alias were doing very well, Maya had been out a while and was really penetrating into Films and Games.
Personally I've never been a subscriber to peoples views of Max being the games tool and first choice for devs (even though its still holds it own), and many forget that Alias's Power Animator and Softimage 3D were already being used extensively in Film and Games, before Max even came along. Max was always popular due to price and its heritage on PC, but with Maya and Softimage 3d/XSI also appearing on PC, Max was loosing alot of ground.

Autodesk buying Alias was a really smart move. Not only did it stem the the flow of loosing Max seats to Maya, it also got Autodesk back into the Games and Film industry. Not to mention gaining share into the automotive industry due to Alias's Studio Tools.

I can't discuss or mention specific numbers but I have heard Max being as quoted as being 'one of the most popular 3D packages' and I can kinda see why because it gets used in many different industries. Its not coincidence that it features in many of the Autodesk Suites offerings.

_________________
Graham Bell - Technical Specialist
Autodesk Media & Entertainment - EMEA
Any opinions expressed here are my own, and do not represent those of my employer.


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 Post subject: Re: Software diffusion
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2012, 01:10 
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Thanks a lot for the your post :)
Bellsey@ I think you are right. I start my interest in 3d before the SG workstation death, so it is a real obscure past for me.

Maximus@ Why you are so sure the Softimage market share rise up compared whit Avid time?
Modo and Lightwave seems more popular compared to Softimage (if we can assume for true the data reported in site you suggested) , but they adding many requested featured in every release compared to XSI (and no view cube at the horizon :) . Ok, softimage is really better, sure, and LW and modo new feature are sometime in XIS from many time or, in many cases, are only "sensationalism" addition, more smoke and less substance (LW can adding what they want, but the poor workflow don't cage... ), but in any case don't seem to me their popularity is a disadvantage in their development.

Quote:
I don't think Softimage is a niche software, it just sells badly... ;)

=)) my metallica friend would said: "sad but true"

Quote:
I always had impression, small number is somehow intentional. There is "trademark" of "different software for power users, proud of their skills", which probably doesn't fiti nto expectation of majority of users, nowadays. I'd also believe Softimage always will find *enough* of people who want this "different".


A voluntarily elitism? IMO AD will not afraid if softimage would sell like or more maya. I think poor market share (compared to maya) is involuntary.

Quote:
Now the question is, what is 3d software. Does Rhino3d fits there - with their "well over 150K" user base , Vray connection, so on.. Also, all those 2d artists who started 3d in zBrush, as well as intention to raise zBrush into complete 3d app - based on completely different concept. We will see...

it is a no problem IMO. Every software capable to show a model in third dimension on you monitor is a 3d software (so Rhino is a 3d software like zbrush).

It is only a speculation (this is a forum, we are like old wives who talk about this and that and speculating on useless stuff :)
I'm not frequenting so many forums, usually I'm very busy for doing that, but yesterday I starting a bit of search, for pure curiosity, and find softimage presence is very poor everywhere (excluding si.community and XSIbase :D ) . On polycount no one mentioned SI 2013 release, idem o cgfeedback (only Kel Solaar , an ultra talented artist, mentioned it, but in a maya 2013 topic, and said SI 2013 release is one of the worse release in his opinion, no one seems interest about and commented this sentence), CGtalk others are sure XSI will be left apart like Toxik compositor (will see XSI like gift for maya users... seems a joke :) ) , and in others forum many are practical sure XSI is a death software, and who know it is not dead are, frequently, sure AD will "take" ICE code and sticky it to maya (code is a lego block and you can attack it everywhere you want :D

Look very strange, just know the little XSI penetration in the market (well, not so little), but seems strange because I don't know a single Softimage user who want leave it or are disappointed with the software in any way (excluding mental ray side). Opposite, I know too many people, a mass of users, who are really bothered by maya and 3dsm. The world is mad... :D


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 Post subject: Re: Software diffusion
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2012, 01:44 
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No one has real datas, but i guess if softimage is still alive means it still sells and growing. AD wouldnt keep a dead product and wouldnt invest money on it.
I think people should stop saying Softimage will get killed or absorbed into maya, its simply stupid, unrealistic.
Softimage is alive because of ICE, if we didnt have ICE back then it would be dead for real. I dont think its gonna be dead anytime soon.
Would be nice if people stop sayin such stupid thing :)


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