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 Post subject: Re: Software diffusion
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2012, 11:15 
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Maximus wrote:
Softimage is alive because of ICE, if we didnt have ICE back then it would be dead for real.

It's true, but sadly it's not the whole picture IMHO. Softimage is, as you say, alive because of ICE, but it's still so much more than "just ICE". It being "just ICE", however, seems to be the main perception of Softimage by others and that might just as well spell trouble for the software in the long run. This might be considered yet another stupid/defeatist notion (although it isn't intended as such), but if you look at development over the last couple of years, I sometimes wonder, what will happen to Softimage once they run out of new things to add to ICE...
;)


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 Post subject: Re: Software diffusion
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2012, 11:31 
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Maximus wrote:
No one has real datas, but i guess if softimage is still alive means it still sells and growing. AD wouldnt keep a dead product and wouldnt invest money on it.
I think people should stop saying Softimage will get killed or absorbed into maya, its simply stupid, unrealistic.
Softimage is alive because of ICE, if we didnt have ICE back then it would be dead for real. I dont think its gonna be dead anytime soon.
Would be nice if people stop sayin such stupid thing :)


People say so because this is the perception given by autodesk and in general by softimage.

I really appreciate Bellsey and Luceric effort, I beat the time they dedicate in forums communication is a extra work not paid by AD, so they doing only for professionalism IMHO

But know a little about marketing and one, fundamental (and basic), marketing rule is: your marketing is good in proportion as public/potential customers comprises and like your message. If customers (or potential customers in this case), misunderstood your message (in this case: they think SI is death or is not a good investment because has an uncertain future), this mean your marketing fail, and is not a customers problem (never, in marketing case study, is a customer mistake/issue, but ever is a marketing manager error in set campaign or communication or quality perception etc.

So, cannot blame the potential users perception. I would like they proving softimage, doing some work and testing the workflow, the powerful modelling tools, the general stability and ICE power and versatility, but their curiosity and interest are not so stimulate...

Quote:
It's true, but sadly it's not the whole picture IMHO. Softimage is, as you say, alive because of ICE, but it's still so much more than "just ICE".

totally agree, but Maximun statement say softimage is alive, and in AD plan, only for ICE, and not for the others potential tool and feature (all present in maya and 3dsm)


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 Post subject: Re: Software diffusion
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2012, 11:41 
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Hirazi Blue wrote:
Maximus wrote:
Softimage is alive because of ICE, if we didnt have ICE back then it would be dead for real.

It's true, but sadly it's not the whole picture IMHO. Softimage is, as you say, alive because of ICE, but it's still so much more than "just ICE". It being "just ICE", however, seems to be the main perception of Softimage by others and that might just as well spell trouble for the software in the long run. This might be considered yet another stupid/defeatist notion (although it isn't intended as such), but if you look at development over the last couple of years, I sometimes wonder, what will happen to Softimage once they run out of new things to add to ICE...
;)


Thats why i dont think its gonna die anytime soon, you wont run out of things to add to ICE because its a giant environment, everything will be replaced by ICE, they just need time and development will require time. Even if i'm disappointed by the latest release mainingly because of the rendering aspect, i cant criticize what Softimage devs are doing. If you compare v 7.0 to 2013 being objective there is a lot of improvement and development.

We still have the most stable and performant software compared to 3ds max and maya, people tend to forget the work they did under the hood on the sdk, which made possible arnold/vray/maxwell, all the gret plugins by users, just check rray.de

In terms of tools i dont feel the need to switch to max maya or modo at all. Softimage has everything. Of course i'd like updates in some areas, but honestly speaking of removing it from Autodesk products, killing it, or integrating ICE in maya is simply ridicolous.
It has a huge market in east for videogames, lots of "big" studios use it, its simply unrealistic they gonna kill it.

I dont think Soft will need that much features from maya or max (and if any its just a situational, user wish, feature). ICE to me can handle everything and will get updated constantly.
There are already a lot of custom deformers you can build with ICE that you simply cant do in max or maya without a TD writing them. Here they are for free, customizable with a low level knowledge of ICE. I've made myself more than 20 tools and i suck at ICE. Just copy/pasting stuff from other users and customizing them, then slapping them into the menù.

I'm the first to shoot at AD for lack of updates in the field i need for my work, but this doesnt mean that they arent doing an overall good job. Devs are brilliant, if you take into account what they did for example with CrowdFX. Ok not everyone will use that, but its a damn good work, now tell me what max or maya got at the same level of development in last years?
Nothing is comparable to the same level of development and new, in term of total new addition.

Now imagine next version will have tools like this, it could be everything, maybe next time you will have a HairFx module, or a CompositeFX, or anything really. Devs are brilliant people and as i said ICE is a beast and saved soft. It just sucks that it needs a lot of time so the perception is they are developing slow.
Still i think a little more could be done but meh i'm happy the software is still alive, its supported by some software houses which i didnt expect, like Next Limit, Chaos Group, Solidangle, Exocortex and many others.

There isnt a single signal they are gonna kill Softimage, its just people mindset that is dooming everything.


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 Post subject: Re: Software diffusion
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2012, 11:49 
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Maximus wrote:
There isnt a single signal they are gonna kill Softimage, its just people mindset that is dooming everything.

Just to make one thing perfectly clear: I am not claiming they are going to kill Softimage. I foresee trouble ahead, that's a different story. But I generally don't think, people who voice their fears about Softimage's future should made out to be the bad guys ("people mindset... dooming everything") like some people in the user base tend to do. A realistic discussion about Softimage's future has never been possible, but this has always been hindered by both sides of the argument IMHO.
;)


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 Post subject: Re: Software diffusion
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2012, 12:02 
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Hirazi Blue wrote:
Maximus wrote:
There isnt a single signal they are gonna kill Softimage, its just people mindset that is dooming everything.

Just to make one thing perfectly clear: I am not claiming they are going to kill Softimage. I foresee trouble ahead, that's a different story. But I generally don't think, people who voice their fears about Softimage's future should made out to be the bad guys ("people mindset... dooming everything") like some people in the user base tend to do. A realistic discussion about Softimage's future has never been possible, but this has always been hindered by both sides of the argument IMHO.
;)


Yes, i am not saying you are, but there has been other people sayin that they gonna kill Softimage, that they will strip ICE and slap into Maya (which is simply technically impossible), and other things like this. I'm not sayin who voice their fears is a bad guy, i voice my disappointment like everyone else, i just say that people should be objective when comparing softwares or development cycles. If its not "people mindset" what is it then?
I'm not offending anyone, apologize if i did, but honestly some comparisons that were made lately for example with Modo was a bit not objective.
I wouldnt dare to compare Soft with Modo for example, they are totally on another level, Modo is too far behind for being able to be compared to Soft, so when i read certain things even from Softimage users i'm a bit clueless on how they pull out those statements.
Its more like they dont know what Softimage can do, but they look at the other software developments and new tools, without knowing your software that deep before going out and take a look at other packages.

Been reading about Modo render vs Mental ray for example, with most people saying Modo renderer is better than Mental ray (which is not). From here a whole discussion about how Modo is better than Soft, or how it got more updates so Softimage will die soon will start. I'm just pulling out examples. Not want to start a 3d war thread :)

Anyway its entertaining to see what other users think, i just think Soft is more than alive even if i'd like a more solid update in Rendering part, and other things. It will come, and if not i'll look to alternatives, its better than having the software discontinued in my opinion. Id just like people to be a little more objective which sometimes they are not.
But i respect every opinion from everyone, so apologize again if i sounded rude.


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