How rendering should be

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Maximus
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How rendering should be

Post by Maximus » 19 Aug 2012, 15:04


Kzin
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Re: How rendering should be

Post by Kzin » 19 Aug 2012, 15:47

maya has integrated mr's progressive rendering mode since the last update, BUT we have hq viewport. i think its the way to go and ad is on the right track here. ;)

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Re: How rendering should be

Post by gustavoeb » 19 Aug 2012, 21:09

Gustavo Eggert Boehs
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Ramon
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Re: How rendering should be

Post by Ramon » 19 Aug 2012, 23:16

Maya have ipr mode for interactive progressive rendering with Mr and Vray. It`s great for shading.
We have great region tool and have`t Mray or Vray support for progressive. LW, Modo, Blender, Max, Maya have nice rendering system for interactive rendering. Softimage with Mr stuck in 2004 year.

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Maximus
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Re: How rendering should be

Post by Maximus » 20 Aug 2012, 01:07

but at least we got a nice crowdFX and HQ viewport and framebuffer that still doesnt work properly =))

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owei
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Re: How rendering should be

Post by owei » 20 Aug 2012, 11:00

Hm...don´t know. Does not really impress me that much. A Quadro AND a Tesla was built in there...
Looks like "a nice to have", though. Don´t forget, that each time you change some geo, not SRT or something, all the data has to be transfered once again. Same problem with all the 3rd party renderer out there. Export times are quite bad in XSI, because it´s single threaded, for some reason. GPU rendering is nice, but has too many disadvantages when it comes to certain areas (texture size, amount of geo ans so on). For previewing scenes it´s usable, of course.
I think Chaosgroup may put this features into the next version of their Vray4soft, I hope..

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oli

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CiaranM
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Re: How rendering should be

Post by CiaranM » 20 Aug 2012, 12:37

owei wrote:Export times are quite bad in XSI, because it´s single threaded, for some reason.
It's not so much the export as it's the evaluation of the scene graph that's single threaded. The render plugin has to traverse the scene graph and evaluate all dependencies for the objects being rendered. From what I understand doing this in an efficient multithreaded way is very difficult, mostly because there may be many interdependencies between objects in the scene, each of which must be resolved in turn. I guess keeping all the threads synchronized would be a nightmare!

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owei
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Re: How rendering should be

Post by owei » 20 Aug 2012, 13:05

...yes, you´ll be much better informed than me, what precisely the problem is. I remember just a couple of discussions going around at "certain" lists and the specific bottleneck, all the data has to travel to the external renderer (and I thought it was also about multithreading..)..

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Maximus
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Re: How rendering should be

Post by Maximus » 20 Aug 2012, 13:24

I'm sorry but did someone of you ever try Maxwell render in softimage? Because last time i did i exported a 5 mil poly scene fully textured in less than 15 seconds.
So i dont really think it depends on softimage but more on who develops the exporter, unless i'm awfully wrong.

That said i posted the link just to remind how far behind we are in rendering department, yeah the rig and setup for that machine is expensive, just i like to look at modern techs, at news and things that will just get your job beter, things that are lacking in our rendering department.
Everywhere you look you will find news/updates/modern features.
I dunno if you guys saw what Mental Images said at siggraph but i'll let ya judge:

Mentioned are features such as:

Ambient Occlusion on the GPU with mental ray
Layered shaders (layered components) that include the SSS shader without lightmapping. They have their own framebuffer mechanism with passes for added flexibility in OEM packages.
Object lights with a new shader independent of OEM integrations
Light Importance Sampling (IS) and Material Importance Sampling. This makes the usage of objects as area lights much easier and faster than before
Multiple Motion Transforms (think curved paths and light streaks)
Light Path Expressions (LPE) in iray
Kepler support for iray 3 in mental ray

it looks like for another year they forgot about the GI, AO in gpu mode? eww.

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Re: How rendering should be

Post by Kzin » 20 Aug 2012, 14:29

Maximus wrote: I dunno if you guys saw what Mental Images said at siggraph but i'll let ya judge:

Mentioned are features such as:

Ambient Occlusion on the GPU with mental ray
Layered shaders (layered components) that include the SSS shader without lightmapping. They have their own framebuffer mechanism with passes for added flexibility in OEM packages.
Object lights with a new shader independent of OEM integrations
Light Importance Sampling (IS) and Material Importance Sampling. This makes the usage of objects as area lights much easier and faster than before
Multiple Motion Transforms (think curved paths and light streaks)
Light Path Expressions (LPE) in iray
Kepler support for iray 3 in mental ray

it looks like for another year they forgot about the GI, AO in gpu mode? eww.
they are working in the new gi now, its on top of their list, so you have to wait a bit more.
they changed alot of thing now in the core of mr. the layered bsdf is a good example. it will allow MIS with the lights in the next version. its the same what arnold does, but goes abit further.
all this is build around unified sampling to take advantage of it. they will create shaders which are easy to use but also customizable for vfx so its a bit more complicated to implement.

what is missing here in the list or not mentioned like it should be i think, is bidirectionel path tracing for iray3. beside the LPE, which is a great feature which no other pt renderer has, this is the thing that should makes the rendering alot faster for more complicated lightscenes, so all interiors.

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Re: How rendering should be

Post by SreckoM » 20 Aug 2012, 15:09

they are working in the new gi now, its on top of their list, so you have to wait a bit more.
What will be timeframe for that to be available inside XSI?
- H -

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Maximus
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Re: How rendering should be

Post by Maximus » 20 Aug 2012, 15:43

SreckoM wrote:
they are working in the new gi now, its on top of their list, so you have to wait a bit more.
What will be timeframe for that to be available inside XSI?
5 years probably, since we are still waiting for progressive rendering to be implemented and many other things. Cant blame mental images for anything when it comes to implementation, AD is just crap into implementing things and feature wise. So yeah, considering AD background dont expect to see it anytime soon, and even when this new features will come out, dont expect to see them in Xsi, they'll prolly go to Maya or Max first.

Years i'd say.

Kzin
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Re: How rendering should be

Post by Kzin » 20 Aug 2012, 15:44

SreckoM wrote:
they are working in the new gi now, its on top of their list, so you have to wait a bit more.
What will be timeframe for that to be available inside XSI?
there is no timeframe at the moment. but, and i think you mean this, as soon as mi implement this and ad NOT, it will be very funny to see whats happen. ;)

Kzin
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Re: How rendering should be

Post by Kzin » 20 Aug 2012, 15:50

Maximus wrote:
SreckoM wrote:
they are working in the new gi now, its on top of their list, so you have to wait a bit more.
What will be timeframe for that to be available inside XSI?
5 years probably, since we are still waiting for progressive rendering to be implemented and many other things. Cant blame mental images for anything when it comes to implementation, AD is just crap into implementing things and feature wise. So yeah, considering AD background dont expect to see it anytime soon, and even when this new features will come out, dont expect to see them in Xsi, they'll prolly go to Maya or Max first.

Years i'd say.
dont know how long it will take to get string options in xsi, max will get it soon, maya has it already. so its not a problem to implement this in maya, i am pretty sure it will be a custom ui for this. and people like thorsten will work on a implementation in max because he will use it. xsi implementation depends to much on ad at the moment, i hope this will change soon enough.

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ActionArt
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Re: How rendering should be

Post by ActionArt » 20 Aug 2012, 22:55

I recently tried Blender briefly along with Cycles and I now feel we're in the stone age with rendering in SI. I dread learning yet another major ap but it sure seems tempting so far.

I imported a large .obj file and it loaded in about 1/2 a second (SI took over a minute). The viewport seemed at least as fast as SI and rendering was a joy. I will be investigating further, but it's pretty impressive. They're gaining ground fast.

What disappoints me most is SI could have easily had something similar with Iray but instead wasted their time with this wretched HQVP. I've tried many times to use it but it's utterly useless. The scene translation or whatever it's called is so slow it's laughable. It would have to be 50x faster to be any use at all.

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ActionArt
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Re: How rendering should be

Post by ActionArt » 20 Aug 2012, 22:58

Kzin wrote:xsi implementation depends to much on ad at the moment, i hope this will change soon enough.
Is that ever true. There's been features handed to them, just sitting there for years that haven't been implemented. Can't imagine how it would change though. MI/Nvidia isn't going to do it for them.

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