XSI for arch viz?

General discussion about 3D DCC and other topics
wannabeArtist
Posts: 98
Joined: 10 Jun 2009, 08:34
Location: Finland

XSI for arch viz?

Post by wannabeArtist » 29 Dec 2009, 11:48

Hello,

I'm curious, is anyone here using XSI (or Softimage) for arch viz in a commercial context?

I have some ideas for a small business and architectural visualization could be part of it. I have to confess I don't know the field very well and I was wondering if it matters which 3d package you use. I'm under the impression that 3ds Max dominates that business (best AutoCAD-integration?), but is it in practice really the only option in order to actually win clients?

julius
Posts: 248
Joined: 12 Jun 2009, 10:56

Re: XSI for arch viz?

Post by julius » 29 Dec 2009, 16:13

Yes, 3dsmax dominates this business, but I used Softimage for some archi-viz projects, with good results. Softimage is not the easiest way for archi-viz (no Autocad integration), but it can do everything you want.

wannabeArtist
Posts: 98
Joined: 10 Jun 2009, 08:34
Location: Finland

Re: XSI for arch viz?

Post by wannabeArtist » 29 Dec 2009, 16:40

Thanks for the reply,

Indeed, XSI can do everything I want, but - to rephrase my question - is it what my client wants? In other words, do architects generally assume that you can work directly on their AutoCAD drawings or is it more flexible? Since you have used it, it must be at least a little flexible requirement, then :)

And don't we have some integration? There is a plugin for dfx import

julius
Posts: 248
Joined: 12 Jun 2009, 10:56

Re: XSI for arch viz?

Post by julius » 29 Dec 2009, 22:09

Some of them give .pdf, other .cad, you have to find tips to work with documents your client gave you. Sometimes, you have to spend a day to import all the stuff you want into softimage... but in my opinion, Softimage is the most adaptable software when you have to cover various projects. If you're going to do only archi viz projects, it's probably not the best choice.

wannabeArtist
Posts: 98
Joined: 10 Jun 2009, 08:34
Location: Finland

Re: XSI for arch viz?

Post by wannabeArtist » 30 Dec 2009, 08:18

Thanks for the details!

I don't plan to do just arch viz, but rather it could be part of my business.

In fact I believe the clients could be quite diverse, once I get started, but it's probably better to concentrate on one - or at least very few types of projects, rather than try to excel in all things 3D.

For certain, I won't be doing any non-trivial animation or simulation projects any time soon, since I have no experience in those, nor character modeling, but just about any building/interior/product -model might be a good starting point.

User avatar
Rork
Posts: 1359
Joined: 09 Jul 2009, 08:59
Location: Close to The Hague, Netherlands
Contact:

Re: XSI for arch viz?

Post by Rork » 30 Dec 2009, 11:26

There are some nice plugins out there that will allow import of DGW files. And in my experience, it's not this import/cleanup that takes the most time, but dressing up the 'set' and lighting it will take more time than anything else.

rob
SI UI tutorials: Toolbar http://goo.gl/iYOL0l | Custom Layout http://goo.gl/6iP5xQ | RenderManager View http://goo.gl/b4ZkjQ
So long, and thanks for all the Fish!!

wannabeArtist
Posts: 98
Joined: 10 Jun 2009, 08:34
Location: Finland

Re: XSI for arch viz?

Post by wannabeArtist » 30 Dec 2009, 22:41

Well, it's good to hear that there are others doing arch viz with XSI.

I guess I need to figure out myself, if there is room for one more :)

luceric
Posts: 1251
Joined: 22 Jun 2009, 00:08

Re: XSI for arch viz?

Post by luceric » 02 Jan 2010, 07:51

It's really not the right tool. Arch Viz is about accurately modeling and visualizing a building and lighting. 3DSMax design has the tools for that. The materials, the lighting tools, units, mesurement tools, primitives, etc.

wannabeArtist
Posts: 98
Joined: 10 Jun 2009, 08:34
Location: Finland

Re: XSI for arch viz?

Post by wannabeArtist » 02 Jan 2010, 09:14

Hmm, well if you say so, I will not argue :)

Even though I don't know the arch viz business in detail (hence the thread), I did assume that 3ds Max is indeed the right tool.

However, I'm not planning to do arch viz exclusively and I suppose for some projects XSI would suffice -especially if others have successfully used it. Also I think my projects in this area would mainly be visualizations of interior designs and not really the "start from AutoCAD dwg"-type of hard core arch viz.

It would be ideal of course to always use the best tool, but I simply can't afford another 3d package currently and learning to be somewhat proficient in XSI has been a huge investment also.

User avatar
Rork
Posts: 1359
Joined: 09 Jul 2009, 08:59
Location: Close to The Hague, Netherlands
Contact:

Re: XSI for arch viz?

Post by Rork » 02 Jan 2010, 10:39

I'm really sorry Luc-Eric, but I disagree with you, like many others will.

Although Softimage/XSI was build with animation in mind, Archviz is a field a lot of us work in from time to time. Or all the time.
The lack of proper materials, lighting tools, units, measurement tools, primitives, etc. in Softimage is something that has been requested for years now. Heck, I've been asking for some basic measurement tools since version 4!!! And better lighting tools has been on the request list of every new version as well by a lot of users.
And yes, some stuff was part of the (now gone) Netview.

Every 3D app was build with a specific area in mind, but you can't blame users for stepping outside the 'box'. And in this financial climate, or before that too, you can't expect users to buy and maintain multiple 3D apps. As much as AD would like that, smaller companies and freelancers just don't have the money to do that.
It's also hard to keep a good level of expertise when running multiple 3D apps, especially with all the new stuff arriving at every release. Most of the time new training is lost down the road due to work schedules. So most of us work in just one 3D app, and we try to do as much as possible in that app.

And stepping outside the Softimage 'box' and looking at all the other (also non AD) 3D apps, most of the things in the little list mentioned earlier are available, and import from CAD is there most of the time too. Not just because these apps were designed with Archviz in mind, but because they recognized and accepted the need of the users.
Softimage still can improve a lot in area's like file import, DWG/DXF import for instance to make the start of an Archviz project easier. And those extra primitives can't be the hardest thing to program, some of them already exist als plugins created by those same users.

As we are creatures of habit, and don't feel comfortable outside our daily routine, don't expect us to jump over to 3DSMax as soon as a Archviz job arrives. It just doesn't work that way. Give us the few tools we're asking for for years now, and we can do even better than all the great Archviz stuff that's already done in XSI and shown on the Internet already.

Other than that, Best wishes for the New Year, and best of luck with any upcoming new version of Softimage ! :ymparty:

rob
SI UI tutorials: Toolbar http://goo.gl/iYOL0l | Custom Layout http://goo.gl/6iP5xQ | RenderManager View http://goo.gl/b4ZkjQ
So long, and thanks for all the Fish!!

luceric
Posts: 1251
Joined: 22 Jun 2009, 00:08

Re: XSI for arch viz?

Post by luceric » 03 Jan 2010, 01:28

Rork wrote:Every 3D app was build with a specific area in mind, but you can't blame users for stepping outside the 'box'. And in this financial climate, or before that too, you can't expect users to buy and maintain multiple 3D apps.
I'm answering the poster's question, "does it matter which tool you use"? Yes, it matters, and it's not only a import format issue or an industry perception issue. Softimage has none of these tools plus the shaders and workflows are not physically accurate. You can use Softimage for that, but is it what "his clients (architects) will want"? Probably not
Rork wrote:As we are creatures of habit, and don't feel comfortable outside our daily routine, don't expect us to jump over to 3DSMax as soon as a Archviz job arrives. It just doesn't work that way. Give us the few tools we're asking for for years now, and we can do even better than all the great Archviz stuff that's already done in XSI and shown on the Internet already.
I think your reply is about requesting ArchViz features, and you're not disagree with what I'm saying. I'm being pragmatic. It's about what's there, not what could be. ArchViz tools are not the radar for the product.

wannabeArtist
Posts: 98
Joined: 10 Jun 2009, 08:34
Location: Finland

Re: XSI for arch viz?

Post by wannabeArtist » 03 Jan 2010, 09:30

Well, this is getting interesting...

A bit off topic now but just out of curiosity - is there a common understanding of how the 3d packages divide the market? Especially those sold by Autodesk?
When I purchased my first XSI license in 2007, I just considered it as a competitor for both Max and Maya. But now that they are all Autodesk products - what is Softimage's sector of the market?

Deracus
Posts: 75
Joined: 05 Jun 2009, 10:24
Location: Leipzig, Germany

Re: XSI for arch viz?

Post by Deracus » 04 Jan 2010, 13:24

Rork wrote:I'm really sorry Luc-Eric, but I disagree with you, like many others will.

Although Softimage/XSI was build with animation in mind, Archviz is a field a lot of us work in from time to time. Or all the time.
The lack of proper materials, lighting tools, units, measurement tools, primitives, etc. in Softimage is something that has been requested for years now. Heck, I've been asking for some basic measurement tools since version 4!!! And better lighting tools has been on the request list of every new version as well by a lot of users.
And yes, some stuff was part of the (now gone) Netview.

Every 3D app was build with a specific area in mind, but you can't blame users for stepping outside the 'box'. And in this financial climate, or before that too, you can't expect users to buy and maintain multiple 3D apps. As much as AD would like that, smaller companies and freelancers just don't have the money to do that.
It's also hard to keep a good level of expertise when running multiple 3D apps, especially with all the new stuff arriving at every release. Most of the time new training is lost down the road due to work schedules. So most of us work in just one 3D app, and we try to do as much as possible in that app.

And stepping outside the Softimage 'box' and looking at all the other (also non AD) 3D apps, most of the things in the little list mentioned earlier are available, and import from CAD is there most of the time too. Not just because these apps were designed with Archviz in mind, but because they recognized and accepted the need of the users.
Softimage still can improve a lot in area's like file import, DWG/DXF import for instance to make the start of an Archviz project easier. And those extra primitives can't be the hardest thing to program, some of them already exist als plugins created by those same users.

As we are creatures of habit, and don't feel comfortable outside our daily routine, don't expect us to jump over to 3DSMax as soon as a Archviz job arrives. It just doesn't work that way. Give us the few tools we're asking for for years now, and we can do even better than all the great Archviz stuff that's already done in XSI and shown on the Internet already.

Other than that, Best wishes for the New Year, and best of luck with any upcoming new version of Softimage ! :ymparty:

rob
I definitely agree with that and want to somehow even emphasize, what rork is saying here. I think, that most of the mentioned "restrictions" of XSI in comparison to Max are kind of artificial. I can´t see a proper reason, why XSI does not offer any kind of Unit system...not only is this necessary for archviz, even the guys who are doing simulation (and isn´t that the point, where XSI should shine since there is ICE?) wouldn´t mind, if there would be some kind of precise measurement system? I mean...as arbitary as it seems, XSI does seem to use one internally, whenever this is needed, where one SI-Unit is taken for approx. 10cm. So why not put some more work in that?

Next there is the argument with the shaders? What shaders do you mean? XSI does incorporate the same MentalRay Renderer as does Max. Even VRay is in development. With some simple tricks it was even possible to put the production and portallight shaders to XSI 6.5. So this can´t really be a serious reason to switch apps, if there was just some work spend in a better integration of the new MR-Features, that are already there but only missing a GUI. Same thing with the lights. Thanks to the wom_archlight, there is a working proof, that XSI is capable of providing physically accurate and working IES-Lighting. Combined with the way of working linear in XSI it is one of the packages, that make working physically accurate easier than many other apps. So it is also no real point for me, that XSI isn´t accurate. It´s just not wanted for the factory release to be it out of the box - which doesn´t make sense to me, as physical accuracy isn´t any ArchViz-luxury in my opinion. Every serious VFX-Work of today - especially when it comes to the combination of CGI and real footage - should be done in linear space with a certain amount of physical accuracy. Stating, that it´s not the focus of XSI being accurate would disqualify the package for anything else then being a better combination of realflow and Messiah and this is definitely nothing you really want to say, right?

Next thing is, that XSI offers such great possibilities when it comes to rendering, that it is really a shame, that ArchViz is not better supported with a few more tools.
The Pass-System of XSI is one of the best and user-friendliest, i have ever seen and the rendertree is, together with the node-editor of lightwave, one of the most flexible material systems untill today. Compared to that, the mat-editor in Max is crap and nothing, that would qualify max even more for ArchViz, than any other app.
Rork already mentioned, that some of the requests exist for years by the community and are partly realized by plugins. So why is SI or now AD not making the next step and integrates them a bit better? I mean...this is not really a question, because i do know, why AD does not want this...but it´s not, what i think of when i hear user-centered business...

To sum it up. I am sorry, that this reply has somehow become a bit of a rant...i don´t want to offend someone personally, it´s just, that i see these points for such a long time now and i wanted to throw in my cents into this discussion, as i thought it would fit in here.
I do use XSI for ArchViz and it does the job for me, allthough it´s sometimes way more complicated, than it should be, as the solution for some bottlenecks in the workflow seems to be so near and clear. Allthough there are drawbacks, i do stick with XSI, because i have other projects, where XSI is exactly what does the job and i just can´t afford to maintain two full licenses and keep track on all the new stuff, that comes with every years release (allthough autodesk makes it sometimes easy...considering the amount of "new" features...but that does not belong here...)

scaron
Posts: 119
Joined: 08 Jul 2009, 05:16

Re: XSI for arch viz?

Post by scaron » 04 Jan 2010, 20:46

i just want to mention that the Thea renderer, which is still in development, is also developing a softimage export plugin, which might interest those doing architectural visualization with softimage.

if you are interested in beta testing please contact me... steven at steven dash caron dot com

steven

User avatar
Rork
Posts: 1359
Joined: 09 Jul 2009, 08:59
Location: Close to The Hague, Netherlands
Contact:

Re: XSI for arch viz?

Post by Rork » 05 Jan 2010, 17:33

Hi Steven,

A new renderer is always interesting :)

But.... Why is the info on their page so minimal. And what I don't understand, why don't forums have guest access??? I want to see examples, but nooooo...... you have to login first ~x(

Anyway... that kind of stuff makes me loose interest fast...

What's happened with information about the Arnold renderer btw? After the first sugar rush it became very quiet...
SI UI tutorials: Toolbar http://goo.gl/iYOL0l | Custom Layout http://goo.gl/6iP5xQ | RenderManager View http://goo.gl/b4ZkjQ
So long, and thanks for all the Fish!!

User avatar
Maximus
Posts: 1104
Joined: 09 Jun 2009, 15:45

Re: XSI for arch viz?

Post by Maximus » 06 Jan 2010, 01:04

Hey guys, i'm interested in this thread, i'm one of the fellow of XSI archviz lol :D
Well i agree with everyone here, in those years i learned a lot of softwares for different tasks, but major is always still images, archviz related, or photographic images, everytime i go back to XSI its always better, ofc that could be because i feel the software, sure we lack of tools, like measure system, materials, lights and such, everything is more complicated than a press button and select a preset daylight on mr in Max.

I think regarding the modeling tools the workflow, the passes, rendertree, speed, UI, interoperability, windows management, scene managements, explorer, XSI still is unsurpassed by far.
I would love to see stuff that max has intergrated in XSI but it wont happen probably, because they want to keep software separated, and probably because they think they prefer to invest money in stuff they already built and they want to improove, so for example they wont spend time/money to develop a unit system or add inbox IES lights, but they will improve ICE or other stuff.

I think this is completely wrong just because with time, AD will get surpassed by other software houses, you can take a look at Modo and what they did, they listen to user base, the software is based on what people do and try to cover a 360 degrees field, cinema4D is another example, took a look at last release ? insane.

What i mean is AD will sure fail and lose potential clients untill they realize that the market HAS changed, as you guys said, no one can afford multiple packages just because one day they got a different work to do.
People already spend a lot of money in those software that is kinda a shame and an offense to not have those tools they actually are asking for years, means AD is deaf, and they keep not adding the stuff you want.

Its gone into a rant i think, but i have kinda lost my hopes to see those stuff inside Softimage, you can just see how they present the software, 0 marketing, in their website is hided in a corner with only Videogame stuff.

Even Mental images woke up and understood that people WANT to do archviz and previz with Mental ray, and they introduced Iray, now we should just wait AD to wake up, maybe in 2020, when already everyone switched to Cinema 4D, or Modo because those software houses see further more than the day after.

Dunno about maya but i think Xsi is the only software left that doesnt have a shell modifier in 2009 lol, and a unit system

Happy new year everyone and good work, enjoy your Software.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 30 guests