Max, or Maya?

[Shredder565]

I plan to use softimage 2014 for as long as i'm able...I bought my copy, and i plan to use it for as long as I can.

But, that being said....


Should the day come when you can't use it anymore,
would you give max or maya a try?


When I started out in 3D in 2000, our 'class' (long story, but use it loosely) used LightWave and Max. I found max easier to use than lightwave, but that was about 10 versions ago. who knows how much it's changed since then, and i've forgotten all but simple stuff now.
Just like how in softimage, I only know enough to get the basics done. I never learned things like programing or effects, or hair.

I tried out Maya once, but found it far more complicated. I couldn't even figure out how to get vert editing started IIRC.

So, should I try and pick up max again? I sometimes feel i am too old now to learn a program. I have alot more patience back in 2007 and it kills me that i have to start basic again.

Also, would it be worth it to find a full copy of softimage to buy, rather than an educational version? I hear they will still allow you to use the license you have if you need to reformat or move to a new machine. I wonder if they will apply to educational software as well.
the only place I found that still have 2014 version of softimage available is here so far.. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1003194-REG/autodesk_590f1_wwr11e_1001_softimage_2014_commercial_new.html





sigh.
thank you corporate structure of kill kill kill..

[Bullit]

I think the best for you is to pick each demo and try it out. Only you can know what is better since neither have a clear advantage in capabilities over the other.

It would help also saying what kind of work you will be doing.

[forton]

I wouldn't trust the link to that store you mention.
I never saw a website where you could purchase autodesk products just like that, at least not in europe...
If I'm not mistaking you can't really buy softimage anymore, maybe you still can rent it as part of a suite with max or maya?

[NNois]

i'll don't bet on Max, his workflow is too different from Xsi than Maya. Many simple things aren't available or hidden compared to XSI, don't start with it or you will die.

[Shredder565]

for me, it's just messing around having fun. i don't sell any of my work, and it's not good enough to farm out to people. just a way to pass the time.

The only copy I Have is a bought educational copy. now i'm wondering if I should just bite the bullet and upgrade to the full copy while i have the chance.

bhphotovideo IS a reputable store....but i havn't found any place to buy a full copy of 2014 other than there. I'd get 2015, but it never works right for me for some reason and has major slow down compared to 2014.


Also, I first started out on max. although, lately, just opening it up on trial....I'll admit to being majorly confused. about all ican figure out how to do is create an object and move one vert at a time.

SoftImage is so much more intuitive than these other two programs it's a sham what autodesk did to it.

[FXDude]

SoftImage is so much more intuitive than these other two programs it's a sham what autodesk did to it.

I dont know if 'sham' was a typo for 'shame', but it doesnt matter becasue it was both a sham and a shame

[luceric]

for me, it's just messing around having fun. i don't sell any of my work, and it's not good enough to farm out to people. just a way to pass the time.

b&h is a reputable store, but that item seems to be listed on their equivalent of the "amazon market", which means sold by a third party. I doubt it's actually purchasable.

anyway, can you really legally use the student versions you're planning to use? are you a student? For more than a decade? In any case,if I were in your place, I would just do that stuff in Blender... you can model in Wings3D if you don't like modelling in Blender, then render in blender. I think all the Daz apps are also free. The "for pay" apps are all made for professional users, present or future pros.

[Rez007]

Since you say it is mainly going to be for personal use, you could also look into Houdini, which would be cheaper if you grabbed the Indie version (commercial license for $200 per year), and they do have educational/learning versions too, which are free and watermarked, I believe...could be wrong though.

I agree with Forton though, I would be ware of buying Softimage from anyone besides Autodesk, which you can only get in the Ultimate Suite until end of July, I believe...it is a chunk of change, and maybe not the best idea, since they are going to their "Collections." I would just be careful as Autodesk is the only company that runs the licensing servers. I guess you could always check with Autodesk first to see if it is even possible before going the route you are looking at.

You have a ton of good work that you did with your TMNT series that you are doing, so I can definitely see how this can be problematic. If you can possibly hold off until Maya 2017 is released, you might get a better idea of what you might like to try. You can always download the trials and give them a test run.

Edit: Blender would also be something to look into as well and might suit your needs better in the long-run.

[Shredder565]

yeah, the entertainment suite is out of the question..

I can't afford $7,000's to buy a license.

And subscription plans at $2k is insane.


there has to be an option where we convince autodesk to continue selling softimage. I bet lots of people would still use it at say, $1500 a license even if it was never updated.

I probably should have thought of this sooner, but funds just never where around to be able to afford a $3000 program that I was never going to use for profit anyway. but when you have no life, it's a LIFESAVER for keeping you sane and making yourself feel like you ARE Productive, if that makes any sense.


thanks for the info on that BH Video link. I didn't know ALL the stores had alternate sellers now. sigh. you've REALLY got to pay attention to WHAT you are buying these days or you can get easily screwed.

I guess I could also reformat my system every 30 days to run the trial again. annoying, but doable.

[Rez007]

Yeah, it is definitely a ton of money if you are just looking to grab Softimage, plus you have to continue on Maintenance to keep the other software (Max and Maya in particular) up-to-date, which gets expensive fast. Convincing Autodesk might be near impossible as I think efforts were made earlier. Although, you could try contacting the EDU department of Autodesk and see what they have to say in your case and see anything they can think of to help you out. I really have no idea what would come from that, most likely nothing, but it is a try at the very least.

I think moving forward, your best bet is to look into the options posted earlier if you don't want to subscribe to Maya or Max. Well, there is Maya LT you can rent at $30 per month. However, that does have some limitations and you cannot render from it (Luceric might have better insight into this though). With that rental of Maya LT, you also get Stingray (Autodesk's game engine) for free - commercial license - all included in that rental. I have not used Stingray, but you might be able to pull off some renders in that. Then, there is also the option of using Maya LT and exporting to Unreal and render through that, which Unreal, with release of 4.12, as some video editing tools in there too.

Going the Maya LT route is about the lowest cost you can look at if you want to stay with Autodesk. Otherwise, Blender, Wings, Houdini Indie, etc. is going to be your best bet. Or, perhaps Lightwave too, but that it a little bit more, and their upgrade price seems to be pretty decent. Just some ideas.

[luceric]

I can't imagine he would enjoy either maya LT or Houdini for the type of use he's doing. It's just not made for that. "XSI Foundation" was probably the best commercial product for that.

[Mathaeus]

I probably should have thought of this sooner, but funds just never where around to be able to afford a $3000 program that I was never going to use for profit anyway. but when you have no life, it's a LIFESAVER for keeping you sane and making yourself feel like you ARE Productive, if that makes any sense.

By the way, if you're planning to proceed with your TMNT series or something like, Blender Artists site gives you much, much wider audience, these days they are comparable to entire CG Talk, considering number of visitors. Now if you're on Blender Artist site, your 3d software is Blender.
When it comes to getting a job, story is a bit different. Where I live, proven method always was to go into local store and buy something - long time ago when I went for box of XSI FND, few local TV studios already got copy together with some AVID product like DS, so they asked reseller ( actually a small store for everything related to cameras, TV, 3d, whatever), to looking for people who are able to utilize this 'thing'. More or less, same is today with Maya LT. This of course does not apply in same way, everywhere. Anyway, we should start, somehow.

[FXDude]

I can't imagine he would enjoy either maya LT or Houdini for the type of use he's doing. It's just not made for that. "XSI Foundation" was probably the best commercial product for that.

I'm sorry.

XSI remains the best product for a host of different things (though all Maya humanisations and Bifrost promises)

It was a sham (and a shame) in the sense that buying it TO retire it (or TO eventually forsake it's availability),
completely lacked consideration of people that depended on it.

For things that only it could do very quickly or simply, or that only it could do at all (anything ICE)
(that apart mere habit which can itself be quite something to get over)

And this is just one case of many others that basically had to change -everything- in consequence,
( EDIT: Often involving becoming considerably more technical for the same tasks or results)
resulting in many changing fields of work entirely (including myself)

It still boggles the mind.

[Shredder565]

yeah, I downloaded trials of max and maya.

We'll see if I can get any farther this time than I did last time i tried.


I'm HOPING that because softimage is now defunct, they won't mind renewing an educational license so long as i don't plan to use it for profit. or, they might not even look at the authorization code and authorize it anyway. I guess it's always worth a try.

The problem is, I've spent the last ten years trying to learn softimage myself. I don't WANT all that to go to waste as it's my entire workflow to get things done fast. it'll be starting fresh all over again.

sigh.
I just love corporate structure.

[Rez007]

I know where you are coming from, I am trying to learn Maya myself as that is the route I took during the transition - I felt that was probably the safest for me at the time. As FXDude has mentioned, it is definitely no walk in the park for any Softimage user and can be really tough. I also feel with all of this going on and why it might have happened (the EOL of Softimage) and why now it seems like everything is going "free," is due partially in-part because of Blender, and also paid work is being shifted to wherever in the world a company can save money. Not saying that Blender is bad, it is not, but it definitely had an effect too. Content creation companies are trying to grab a larger user base and keep them tied in (rentals can do this) so they have a more consistent stream of reliable users and income where they can focus their efforts on particular software(s).

Companies, and we as users, all have the same end goal - to make money and survive. Unfortunately, there are just different ways to go about this, and larger companies have a ton of more "moving parts" so-to-say, to keep operating in the black. You have to think where we would all be now, if certain things didn't take place before. I know it might be a bit off topic, but we can't really turn back the clock on this at all, just have to move forward. However; that uncertainty always remains, that the new software you chose to learn, might also get EOL'd someday and you have to look at a new option again.

I think looking at the companies that exist today, and trying to figure out where they might be in the future in regards to how they operate may be worth noting in choosing your route. Unreal is sliding in the back door and some people might not even be realizing it. They have turned their engine into a real powerhouse...if they would add some DCC core functions, like modeling, texturing, etc., maybe Blenders days might be numbered, as well. Being Open Source though, has a huge benefit to Blender, as it can always stay alive in one fashion or another.

Talking to Autodesk about your EDU Softimage, might be an option, and who knows what might come from that. Just be mindful that they can always stop the authoring servers on that. I always felt EDU versions are kind of handled awkwardly anyway. Why stop people from learning? I think EDU, or learning editions, should be available to anyone to learn, regardless if you are in school, freshly out of school, or a pro looking to learn new software to change direction. I think Autodesk would get a ton more users this way as well, and also bring more people into their rental program. What companies should do with EDUs and learning editions, is limit them at the end, not at the beginning. I think what SideFX (Houdini) does is a smart way to gain users. They limit the output resolution, a small watermark is added, and files are saved to a learning edition format and cannot be used in conjunction with their Pro version. That is how you open up learning to people, while keeping the learning editions free from being used for commercial purposes - which is a killer to people who do pay for their software.

Lightwave is a privately held company, as with SideFX, so they have a different direction is how they operate. If Autodesk does not help with the Softimage EDU route for you, maybe you could also give the trial of Lightwave a try, which would probably be a bit more friendly than Houdini (as Luceric mentioned earlier that Maya LT and Houdini might be overkill for your purposes.) A lot of Lightwave users went to Softimage years back because they felt it was the closet option to what they already knew.

Sorry for the long winded write-up, but where we all are now, as Softimage users, can be attributed to outside factors that took place, as technology is screaming right now in terms of production speed. I don't think anyone saw any of this coming, and I mean anyone. The best bet is try out some trials to see what you like and what is most cost effective for you in the long-run and how that relates to your endgame. Also, get to know the communities (I will save you some time on this one - here, si-community, is about the best you are going to find). Rough times for all of us, but just keep trekking on, and even if you move on to other software, you can still feel free to post here. I do.

[Daniel Brassard]

You will have to consider in you decision other factors such as advance in operating systems, availability of drivers, advance in technology, etc. Softimage may be good for now but will you be able to use it in five years? 10 Years?

At this point I think it would be prudent to test other solutions to find the one that best meet your requirements. I would not trust AD to give you any help on this matter, they have declared Softimage EOL and they will phase out any services to non-paying and paying customers over time.

Take the time to write down your requirements on paper (modeling, animation, rendering, texturing, scripting, VFX, etc.) and prioritise them. Is animation a must? Modeling? Texturing? Can it be done via other solutions, cheaper and/or faster?

Consider your budget (what are you willing to pay), learning curve, stability, support, and ease of use.

Consider the market you are aiming for (VFX, Animation, Gaming, Advertising, Film, Freelancing, Arch Visualisation, Hobbyist, etc.) and what are they using. Are they moving toward other solutions?

Consider your library of assets, is it large? Can it be move to another solution? How? If its important, make sure its part of your requirements.

Check the various software available, check their feature list and cross-check with your list of requirements.

Consider the company credentials, are they listening to their customers? Are they innovative? When was the last time they updated the software? Is it stable or full of bugs? Are they responsive to service calls and how quickly do they respond.

Check forums to see if what they claims is true, partially true or just marketing ploys.

Consider your learning curve and experience. Can you use your knowledge and experience to speed up the process of learning? How quick can you learn and what do you need to learn the software faster. Which area do you need to learn first? Is there videos on vimeo/youtube that will help you get to speed? Books? DVD? Local class or workshops? E-Learning? At what cost?

Consider your workflow and work habits. Can they be adapted quickly or do they need to be re-visited?

Is the community vibrant and helpful? Is the community full of newbies or frequented by more experienced people willing to help as well?

Be selective on what trial version you will download and test. Don't just download everything out there, you will lose your mind and never come to a reasonable conclusion. Start with those that meet most of your requirements and budget, and test, test, test. Each one will have a steep learning curve. Stay focus on what matters the most. And check you list of requirements often. Don't be distracted by new shiny features, if its not part of your requirements, move on, don't waste time, you can learn that stuff later.

Your priority is to select something that fit your needs (not somebody else) as quickly and as efficiently as possible. Your time is precious, use it to deepen your understanding of the software once you have made your final selection.

Good luck!