Ideas and Synopsis

[Hirazi Blue]

I'd say, anyone with time to rewrite the script should be able to give it a go...
(no offense to opentarget obviously)
And while I agree character design should be left to those who do this best,
I would first of all look for someone within our litter si-community (or the wider Softimage community as a whole) to attempt this task...
If that approach fails, "contracting" outside of our community obviously is a real possibility... ;)

Please don't lose that last bit of enthusiasm.
We've come so far (this second time around)

[opentarget]

Yep the 2nd draft is coming soon, I was hopeing for a bit more input but I can keep going myself. Great idea about the concept sites. We should come up with the best way to approach the other forums so as not to make it seam we are threading on the toes of the site owners, but if its concept only I guess a colaberation shouldn't be to bad of an idea and actually a very good idea.

[Hirazi Blue]

I can't speak for the rest of our team (i.e. owei ), but IMHO approaching other forums isn't a problem at all, as long as it remains clear, that "our" CAP forum is intended as the main hub of all discussions...
That way, we also prevent a lot of separate threads on separate forums... ;)

[opentarget]

Well that's great let's go for it and get the concept rolling, conceptart.org is a good one and deviantART also. I have a version 2 and a slightly shorter version 3 ready to upload and ill up them 2moro morning. Also I'm sure if we are happy with the direction the new versions are going then we can get moving on concept and pipeline issues so we can start to build up more interest in the project.

[opentarget]

started a new thread CAP-Screenplay development. I made this to keep the screenplay work all together and keep it clean.

head over and have a look.

[aminate]

As for the Concept stuff. How cartoony/hyper-realistic are we going for here? I'd like to see it be dark and grungy but at the same time still have that nice soft CG cartoon feel to it. The mirror scene could make for a really neat closeup shot showing a ton of detail in his face and eyes.

I'm all for outsourcing the Character concepts. Not soo much for a render reference, but more for just overall design/shape/features of the characters. We can take care of nailing down the render style.

[opentarget]

Agreed,I think we should work out our design/style ours elves here and have something usefully for the concept artists to work with. I always thought of it as toon style also, with realistic texture and shading, with very strong lighting.

[aminate]

So what are everyones strengths here?

I'm an animator obviously, am graduating animation mentor in 3 weeks, But I have a solid background in other areas as well. Modeling, Texturing (zbrush), rendering (MR or 3delight), and even though I'm not a hardcore programmer, I do have some rigging experience as well.

I think it might be beneficial to assign "supervisor" type roles for the project. Just to make sure the different stages are staying on track.

anyone have any ideas for that? or any other ways to go about it?

[redmotion]

Right now, the number of people we have involved doesn't really justify "supervisor" roles!

I would suggest that everyone here can muck in on everything. If you've not tried it before (modelling, texturing, animation, rigging etc) now's your chance. You will be critiqued by your peers and learn from your peoples opinions/advice/experience. (Its tough going but I've learned a hell of a lot more working on a project (HL2 mod) than working in isolation.) More difficult tasks like main characters could be modelled/rigged/textured etc by the more experienced while we can all contribute to more minor elements.

Lets look at how this thing gets done:-
1. Character concepts and artwork(for internet dating site)/Environment Concept design/Mood boards/lighting swatches/Visual storyboard/Rough Shot list

2. Previz/(Sound FX?): Previz can make the later stages more efficient, we can cut very quickly rough camera positions/lighting/check composition of shots/number of and durations of shots/scenes - its even possible to cut a rough soundtrack together this early. We can then use this to adjust and managed the pace of scenes as they get more detail and determine what needs to be modelled/textured etc.) Even the characters can be very rough stick models. This will allow us to set up all the assets in the model folders and reference into Scene files. Each XSIscene file covering just a particular camera shot.

Once this is complete, we will have a very clear direction of what needs to be done (but it won't be 100% precise). We will also have our first daily into which we can drop scenes as they develop and edit as we go along. (We'd have also experienced the entire process through once (roughly) as a test run.)

3. Modelling (Two 3d characters (perhaps two versions? Final render version which can be worked on throughout the production stages and a rough, possibly even untextured animation version) plus various props and main environments - all items to be cataloged and modelled, initially as boxes and simple props)
4. Texturing/Materials
5. Rigging
6. Animation (broken down into scenes - everyone could choose scenes to work on which we could grade as 1-5 in the difficulty stakes - I think our top animators could quite easily determine the ratings. We should also use the previz to remove as much animation work as possible from the workload. Like avoiding complete body shots, for example.)
7. Camera/Photography and Lighting (Each scene will need lighting and some will, although following a particular look for continuity sakes, need tweaks to ensure characters are still defined with rimlights etc. if their is a change of camera angle)
8. Rendering (Everyone can be assigned scenes to render - even people who haven't contributed could help out here)
9. Compositing (Everyone can be involved, especially if we limit the project to FXTree only - its one of the easiest compositors I've used - again, maybe this would get us some new team members.)
10. Final Editing with music/sound/titles/credits (Possibly best done by no more than 1-3 people)

[aminate]

I know, there's really just not enough people on board yet to justify sups. But ultimately, I'd like to see this avoid being a chop shop type production.

what is the real goal here? to create an incredible short film from members of the community? or provide a learning environment for (example) people who have never rigged before, to try rigging. I think both can be achieved, but if you had to pick one...?

the latter seeming to delay production time, and overall loss of focus. resulting in the project losing artists.

supervisors would in the end, keep the sites set on realistic timeline goals, maintain a consistent style across the board, and hand out shots/scenes to people to work on (for whoever wants to try whatever). essentially, they would keep the ball rolling forward smoothly.

however we choose to go about it, I know for sure that the lack of organization will kill this project.

[opentarget]

the overall goal of the project has to be to create a high quality piece that the whole community can be proud of and can help all indavidual artists to get good experince and recgonition for the work they put in. at the same time if people are working on this and not advanicing there current skills and adding to there arsnel then the project wont have enough of a payoff for the indavidual, so in my opinion people need to skill up on this.

I agree that someone needs to make sure that work gets done on this once the ball rolls. myself and redmotion where branded with the roll at the conception of the idea(curtasy of Hirazi Blue) so i think we should keep that structure for the moment untill we are ready for a sort of line producer. Perhaps when production starts each department should be headed up by skilled indaviduals such as animation, lighting audio and so on, what do you think of that idea?

[Hirazi Blue]

opentargets post came along while I was writing this,
but I'm not going to edit it accordingly

For the record: opentarget and redmotion were originally "divinely" appointed as the CAPtains of this project.
As such they must ultimately decide how to go on,
not only concerning the supervisors.
My personal involvement in a project that's too serious/professional would in the end only be marginal, as I am not an animator, just an enthusiastic hobbyist. But that shouldn't be seen as a deterrent to take that route, as I can see such a path leads to a better short...
However, with the current stock of participants this project is going to be a chop shop affair at best anyway, so before we go on, we must find a way to interest more people for our little project, even if we were to eventually lose them again...

[redmotion]

how about gathering together mood boards and inspirational images as animate suggested and building up a library to inspire our concept artists when we get them onboard?

Agreed.

BTW I'd love this to look like a professional job. I think, as it progresses, we should get more people wanting to help. Its the lack of visual hooks that's not helping us at the moment.

[Hirazi Blue]

FYI - I extracted the three posts on the topic of which collaborative software solution to be used and placed them in their own little thread.
(Please don't ask to me to undo this, I haven't got a clue how to do that...)

[opentarget]

BTW I'd love this to look like a professional job. I think, as it progresses, we should get more people wanting to help. Its the lack of visual hooks that's not helping us at the moment.

yes a professional job is what we need to shoot for, as high a quality as any short on the net.
i have started to gather some drawings, renders and photos of i have found online and snaped over the past few days. what is the "legal" issue surounding the upload of images from other artists for use in our moodboard? will their be an issue with this?

[Hirazi Blue]

So basically, you've got three people ready, willing and able to participate
and you want to obviously aim for the highest possible quality...
I'd say: give up your day jobs (or attract some more people to this project)...