why not cinema 4d?

Discussions about migration to other software
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noseman
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Re: why not cinema 4d?

Post by noseman » 21 Mar 2014, 18:04

Thanks Mauricio.

final post for today, although I can't promise...

Cinema 4D is a great piece of software. That is a fact. It's not for everyone, and that's another fact.
Don't listen to the negative generalisations, as they are not Cinema 4D specific, and as we all know very well, all 3D software suffer from their own shortcomings.

Download the Demo, give it a spin, ask all the questions you want, and decide for yourselves.

Visit https://www.cineversity.com and look at the free videos.
Visit CGTalk, http://www.c4dcafe.com, https://www.helloluxx.com, https://www.vertex-pusher.com and many other free tutorial repositories I can't remember right now, there are tons.
a Mac, Cinema 4D & half a brain are all the tools I need

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MauricioPC
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Re: why not cinema 4d?

Post by MauricioPC » 21 Mar 2014, 18:14

Visit: http://www.greyscalegorilla.com and http://www.beeple-crap.com. Awsome resources for C4D as well.

One thing that could be awesome to keep things parametric is the "Edit Poly" modifier of 3ds Max. Every tool should have something like that. This way you never loose the 'live' editing capabilities when you need to 'convert to editable'.

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noseman
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Re: why not cinema 4d?

Post by noseman » 21 Mar 2014, 18:30

luchifer wrote:I saw in modo the workflow of adding shapes to tubes or parts of a model, and this can be done easily with mograph and selection tags, but in order to add pieces to the tube, I have to make it editable, so im losing the ability to change the shape of my curve.
there are ways, although not straightforward. Could you be kind enough as to post a link to the modo workflow?
Thanks
a Mac, Cinema 4D & half a brain are all the tools I need

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MauricioPC
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Re: why not cinema 4d?

Post by MauricioPC » 21 Mar 2014, 18:33

noseman, how do you feel about C4D as a modeling tool? Modeling in the sense of characters? I know that for archviz, mograph, etc, it's really good. But what about some organic modeling (not sculpting, but the push and pull of polys)? How is to do retopo in C4D? If you don't know, that's okay ... I'm curious.

Seeing this stuff of C4D makes me think that a C4D + Houdini could be a badass combo. I say Houdini because I love FX as well. And that would be the price if I bought 3ds Max + all relevant plugins for FX.

3DKiwi
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Re: why not cinema 4d?

Post by 3DKiwi » 21 Mar 2014, 18:36

I'm pretty sure this can't be done in modo as described. Although I'm a C4D user I used modo for a few years and was on their Beta testing testing team for a short stint. modo is very weak when it comes to non destructive stuff i.e. almost non existant apart from a few deformers.

luchifer
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Re: why not cinema 4d?

Post by luchifer » 21 Mar 2014, 18:46

noseman wrote:
luchifer wrote:I saw in modo the workflow of adding shapes to tubes or parts of a model, and this can be done easily with mograph and selection tags, but in order to add pieces to the tube, I have to make it editable, so im losing the ability to change the shape of my curve.
there are ways, although not straightforward. Could you be kind enough as to post a link to the modo workflow?
Thanks
I sent you a pm.

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MauricioPC
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Re: why not cinema 4d?

Post by MauricioPC » 21 Mar 2014, 19:24

3DKiwi wrote:I'm pretty sure this can't be done in modo as described. Although I'm a C4D user I used modo for a few years and was on their Beta testing testing team for a short stint. modo is very weak when it comes to non destructive stuff i.e. almost non existant apart from a few deformers.
I was going to ask about animation in C4D, but I guess this doc gives a good idea. It's not Pixar, but in a way, it's cooler than Pixar.


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noseman
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Re: why not cinema 4d?

Post by noseman » 21 Mar 2014, 19:43

luchifer wrote:I saw in modo the workflow of adding shapes to tubes or parts of a model, and this can be done easily with mograph and selection tags, but in order to add pieces to the tube, I have to make it editable, so im losing the ability to change the shape of my curve.
I hope this is what you where asking about. If not, please say so, and I'll see what I can do.

https://vimeo.com/89735245
a Mac, Cinema 4D & half a brain are all the tools I need

luchifer
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Re: why not cinema 4d?

Post by luchifer » 21 Mar 2014, 20:20

noseman wrote:
luchifer wrote:I saw in modo the workflow of adding shapes to tubes or parts of a model, and this can be done easily with mograph and selection tags, but in order to add pieces to the tube, I have to make it editable, so im losing the ability to change the shape of my curve.
I hope this is what you where asking about. If not, please say so, and I'll see what I can do.
yes, thats what I wanted, because is non-destructive (unlike modo). I didnt knew about the mograph selection option. Thank you! (its sorta like painting weight maps in XSI)

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noseman
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Re: why not cinema 4d?

Post by noseman » 21 Mar 2014, 20:24

luchifer wrote:yes, thats what I wanted, because is non-destructive (unlike modo). I didnt knew about the mograph selection option. Thank you! (its sorta like painting weight maps in XSI)
I'm glad it helped.
I think there was a plugin once, that allowed you to scale each cloner to the area of the underlying polygon. Damn it, can't remember the name…
I'll post it if it comes back to me.
If you're interested, maybe you can post a question at CGTalk.
a Mac, Cinema 4D & half a brain are all the tools I need

Bullit
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Re: why not cinema 4d?

Post by Bullit » 21 Mar 2014, 20:27

Nothing I can say, although even beta testers are aware of a fraction of what's going on inside Maxon.

Or a better question for if you think you can't answer :

-Mograph can still be improved in a sizable way?

-What is the biggest weakness of Cinema in your opinion.

-Expresso can evolve to be an ICE system?

Richy
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Re: why not cinema 4d?

Post by Richy » 21 Mar 2014, 20:31

luchifer wrote:Hi noseman, I dont want to abuse of your good will, but I have a c4d question (wich of course, involves XSI workflow). I ask this because im unable to find a workaround:

Is it posible in c4d to create a curve, sweep it to make it a tube, extrude some polygons to make a nice looking tube) and then change the curve initial shape? (as you know, in XSI you can change the points of a curve after you extrude it, but in c4d I lose the ability to modify the shape once I make it editable)

I saw in modo the workflow of adding shapes to tubes or parts of a model, and this can be done easily with mograph and selection tags, but in order to add pieces to the tube, I have to make it editable, so im losing the ability to change the shape of my curve.
C4D have something, that i didn't got answer is si-community, how to do this in XSI. It's a free C4D plugin MagicSweep from Nitro4d.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_i1p3nKQ9Q#t=705

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noseman
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Re: why not cinema 4d?

Post by noseman » 21 Mar 2014, 20:56

Richy wrote:It's a free C4D plugin MagicSweep from Nitro4d.
Nitroman is a gem of the Cinema 4D community. He has unlimited Plugin production capabilities.
Just visit http://nitro4d.com/blog/ and see what he does… he's amazing, and speaks his own version of English :-)

Only Please, let's not make this thread a VS one.
a Mac, Cinema 4D & half a brain are all the tools I need

Richy
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Re: why not cinema 4d?

Post by Richy » 21 Mar 2014, 21:01

Some really nice C4D non destructive workflow.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CjxP1fv ... D_6X_HXU2D

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noseman
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Re: why not cinema 4d?

Post by noseman » 21 Mar 2014, 21:17

Bullit wrote:-Mograph can still be improved in a sizable way?
-Expresso can evolve to be an ICE system?
-What is the biggest weakness of Cinema in your opinion.
I have re-arranged the questions.

First I want to say that, under the hood, nearly every version, since the first release, Mograph has received some sort of update. Currently it's at version 2.5 (internally). I'm sure they will continue improving it. How and when, I have no idea.
The way I see it, is the Xpresso HAS to move forward. It's still extremely powerful, albeit a bit under-appreciated. My guess is as good as yours. Having said that, XPresso has also received updates throughout the years. Addition of new Nodes, close collaboration with Python e.t.c.
I do envy the speed I see of ICE, to be honest.

Lastly, the weakness…
I can make a list of things I would be very happy for Maxon to develop more, but I think that the biggest weakness of C4D is not in it's toolset, but in the way it's perceived. Cinema 4D takes much more crap, than it deserves. Consequently a lot of tools that are available for other Software are not for us. But it seems that the tides are changing.
If you insist in my "least favourite feature" then that's the Viewport speed with large object counts.
a Mac, Cinema 4D & half a brain are all the tools I need

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MauricioPC
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Re: why not cinema 4d?

Post by MauricioPC » 21 Mar 2014, 21:45

noseman wrote:If you insist in my "least favourite feature" then that's the Viewport speed with large object counts.
We can only imagine, but I was Maxon is addressing this right now given that in the last few years, Autodesk invested heavily to improve viewport performance on 3ds Max and Maya.

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