Softimage 2012 announced

News concerning 3D DCC business
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ActionArt
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Re: Softimage 2012

Post by ActionArt » 05 Mar 2011, 22:29

I agree about one of the best markets for SI is freelancers and small studios. In this case it would be nice to have more ready to use tools rather than ICE most of the time. I think now that they've accomplished most of the important areas in ICE they may turn back to some core development such as the viewport, rendering etc. I hope they do.

As for larger shops, I think that if TD's there can use ICE to develop their tools much faster than I think there'll be a place for it, especially since it integrates easily with Max and Maya. Everyone, large or small wants to be faster. Also, freelancers and small studios can now develop more advanced tools with ICE that they wouldn't have before. This is a great example: http://timoschaedel.com/index.php?proje ... jectid=40# Done with just a few (extremely talented) guys, but a small shop overall. I think SI has a real place in this sort of production when it can beat out Maya for speed, ease and flexibility.

Also, lets not forget that now that the groundwork is in place (ICE) SI developers can ALSO use it to create new tools for us which should speed up development in a spectacular way!

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Nizar
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Re: Softimage 2012

Post by Nizar » 06 Mar 2011, 00:22

I agree with Max, for a small or single man studio SI look a great choice.
I don't know if AD plan transform XSI in a Houdini like software, but:
They don't brought it for close a competitor (SI development continue)
They don't brought SI for steal his technology (we know it is impossible)
IMO don't seem they aim at little studios (as I read in Max link below, Maya/Max is firmly stable in his big production studios position, regardless how good is XSI release, or worse is Max/Maya), if they want conquer market share in this field, like say Max, must upgrade all the software aspects, not only ICE.
They brought and invest money in software who can steal Maya or Max market share? Why? was more simple wait a Avid failure. For this reason I think XSI never will have a Archiviz strong tools as users requested (this is a 3dsmax field), or will be armed with anything can be worry Maya
So, why they brought XSI and how they can insert it in his software portfolio? The only idea I have, and if a look at the
last release (from 7.5 to 2012) the only development was on ICE, so, I think, they want compete against Houdini. IMO, is the only XSI reasonable use in Autodesk software arsenal (or aim at little studio, but AD don't doing nothing in this sense).

In other post Hirazi show a video: 3dsm/XSI interpolation. No one of us, I think, need this (I don't have a 3dsm license and don't need it). This is good for studio and can push the
SI selling (under this pint of view is a good marketing operation). the worse thing about this video IMO, is XSI look like a big (cumbersome) and expensive 3dsm plugin... Ok, this is the other only idea about autodesk use of XSI: doing all the works Maya and 3dsMax cannot doing (ICE) like a big plugin (or companion).

luceric
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Re: Softimage 2012

Post by luceric » 06 Mar 2011, 00:34

What Softimage is working on is supporting studios and pipelines who are continuing to invest a lot in Softimage. This is why all the work in SDK, texture editor, weight editor, realtime shaders dev, reference models, and ICE. Half of the seats of Softimage are in games pipelines - some have hundreds of seats, a couple have completely customized version of the product. The other half is a mix of various types of clients. Many studios only use Softimage for a part of pipeline, generally animation and (since ICE) effects. Softimage isn't being targeted as a Houdini replacement, a Architecture Visualization tool, or to other non-client.

As a second goal, Softimage is included in the Creation Suite Premium, where it's targeted as a simulation tool for Maya or Max users. No one thinks these guys are going to switch to Softimage, or to switch from Houdini to Autodesk; it's all about using Maya or Max with a little Softimage ICE on the side. You might avoid a switch to Houdini, but you're not likely to get a Houdini switcher. Softimage acts as a kind of research lab for everything that can be done with ICE, which is something the other apps don't have.
Last edited by luceric on 06 Mar 2011, 16:30, edited 1 time in total.

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Nizar
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Re: Softimage 2012

Post by Nizar » 06 Mar 2011, 00:59

As a second goal, Softimage is included in the Creation Suite Premium, where it's targeted as a simulation for Maya or Max users. No one thinks these guys are going to switch to Softimage, or to switch from Houdini to Autodesk; it's all about using Maya or Max with a little Softimage ICE on the side. You might avoid a switch to Houdini, but you're not likely to get a Houdini switcher. Softimage acts as a kind of research lab for everything that can be done with ICE, which is something the other apps don't have.
Hi Lurec, sorry because my english is very poor, but your sentence is similar to my
In other post Hirazi show a video: 3dsm/XSI interpolation. No one of us, I think, need this (I don't have a 3dsm license and don't need it). This is good for studio and can push the
SI selling (under this pint of view is a good marketing operation). the worse thing about this video IMO, is XSI look like a big (cumbersome) and expensive 3dsm plugin... Ok, this is the other only idea about autodesk use of XSI: doing all the works Maya and 3dsMax cannot doing (ICE) like a big plugin (or companion).
Sincerely, I don't like me... my can be a limited point of view, but in this way SI will expanded and developed in all the area Maya and 3dsm need, and not because SI users need this or other tools/implementation/ improvement.
Many studios only use Softimage for a part of pipeline, generally animation and (since ICE) effects. Softimage isn't being targeted as a Houdini replacement, a Architecture Visualization tool, or other non-client.
[/quote][/quote]
and all costumers outside big studios who use SI? XSI is a generalist software, can doing animation, modelling, rendering ecc. Many users (like wrote Max or Actionart) are single man studios, and cannot buys the expensive creative suit or invest all the time need a new application learning. All this costumers acquired (and learned) XSI because is an all around application. Seems AD don't need us...
Last edited by Nizar on 06 Mar 2011, 01:00, edited 2 times in total.

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ActionArt
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Re: Softimage 2012

Post by ActionArt » 06 Mar 2011, 00:59

Thanks for the insight :) Of course SI has to target their main development where the money is. Hopefully the small shop / freelancer base grows to where we're a major factor.

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Hirazi Blue
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Re: Softimage 2012

Post by Hirazi Blue » 06 Mar 2011, 12:04

As far as I can tell from the list of new features published in the “Planet Softimage” blog there is sadly still missing one tiny aspect to ICE, which I have been hoping for ever since version 7.0 came out. I am speaking of a nice and easy way to access “XSI Hair” from within ICE Trees. While I fully understand the focus for creating and simulating hair has shifted towards the ICE strand solutions, like Kristinka & Melena, I find it somewhat strange the classic “XSI Hair’ still hasn’t got the ICE treatment, now that even Syflex has gotten it.

And I really hope, but somehow doubt, the “CUDA acceleration for PhysX RBD” feature, Softimage advertised so prominently in version 2011, will be fixed/actually work in this version. But to know for sure, we’d have to wait for the fix list or better still the final product itself, as it worked “on paper” in version 2011 as well.

Looks like an interesting release. Maybe Autodesk could, to make life a little bit easier for those of us not really embedded in ICE, finally consider bringing back a workable ICE Compound exchange instead of the current system @ the Area which doesn’t seem to appeal much to uploaders and downloaders alike…
;)

edit & P.S. - I don't think it has been mentioned here yet:
Recordings of the Autodesk GDC product demos are online now
Stay safe, sane & healthy!

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ace63
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Re: Softimage 2012

Post by ace63 » 06 Mar 2011, 12:51

No one thinks these guys are going to switch to Softimage
And that is the problem when one company owns all 3 big players.

With a bit of updates in various regions (Unit System, Hair, Volumetric Rendering) Softimage could become a powerhouse for small studios and freelancers.
I have used maya and C4D before (only tried max once for 20 minutes) and would never ever consider using either of those over Softimage as long as
I had the choice.
But this is not very likely to happen because - as you said - it is being developed as a pipeline tool.

My suggestion would be to go ahead and try to replace as much of the old functions as possible with ICE equivalents - node based everything.
This would come in handy for both the usual artist (multi threading, more control over everything) as well as studio pipelines with devoted TDs.

You did very well opening the SDK and the Renderer API further and I have faith that Softimage is on a great road to success - now all of those
max and maya guys need to know about it ;)

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Mathaeus
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Re: Softimage 2012

Post by Mathaeus » 07 Mar 2011, 00:05

Hirazi Blue wrote:from within ICE Trees. While I fully understand the focus for creating and simulating hair has shifted towards the ICE strand solutions, like Kristinka & Melena, I find it somewhat strange the classic “XSI Hair’ still hasn’t got the ICE treatment, now that even Syflex has gotten it.
Because there is no better ! :)) OK now seriously, IMHO ( *very* MHO ...), current built-in fur module has a lot of 'by design' limitations, a lot necessary features are just un-defined ( a famous 'scale along length', for example). Probably because it was created to survive on machines with 256-512 Mb RAM. So, best solution would be writing the new system from scratch ( *very* MHO, again ...). Now with new tools in 2012, someone will maybe trying to write gizmos and so on, around existing ICE stuff - but I'm afraid, making this will bring a lot of limitations too. After all, a *very* few people in small shops, needs no anything more than 'something furry'. A very promising, on very nice price, bHairy plugin for XSI isn't alive anymore.

Syflex is beast, that deserves a much, much better integration. And there is a more of application for cloth simulator, than hair system.

IMHO #3, the same new-system-from-scratch applies to Mental Ray, maybe... to system of local transforms in SI (looks like it's a heritage from Softimage 3d).

About Hair in Softimage, I'd believe the *huge* improvement comes from Helge's Momentum 2. Decent rope simulation, that provides well defined orientation for each segment, self-collision.... *that* is important, not this or that way of styling. And of course, decent render engine ...

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Hirazi Blue
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Re: Softimage 2012

Post by Hirazi Blue » 07 Mar 2011, 09:10

@Mathaeus - Thanks for filling me in on what's important... :D Be that as it may, however, opening the "XSI Hair" for easier access in ICE shouldn't have been all that big a deal, so they could have done so relatively easily IMHO. Saying the "XSI Hair" has limitations is an understatement and we all know it, but as it doesn't seem like such a big deal to create some bridge to ICE, relying on third-party solutions totally and not even trying to save the built-in "XSI Hair" from extinction still seems like an oversight to me.

BTW - Bhairy still exists. It's even free now, although it's no longer maintained.

edit: a totally different topic and not necessarily @Mathaeus - what's the status of the metaSL support in SI2012? In SI2011 it was unsupported but accessible through its very own environment variable. Will it be "supported" in SI2012?

luceric
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Re: Softimage 2012

Post by luceric » 07 Mar 2011, 14:29

the hair system is a black box by joe alter that does all of its own thing in its own way with a custom primitive. The best solution is to use something truly built on ICE, not working to expose that non-standard primitive to ICE and simulation, so than you can then do things that won't work with joe alter's system anyway. Syflex ICE is a a complete re-write of Syflex as ICE nodes, not a bridge to the old implementation.

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ace63
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Re: Softimage 2012

Post by ace63 » 07 Mar 2011, 14:48

So wouldn't it be the best thing to drop the whole old hair system since the simulation tools are close to unusable anyway and implement something from the ground up in ICE?

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ActionArt
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Re: Softimage 2012

Post by ActionArt » 11 Mar 2011, 15:51

There's been talk that Iray is useless in it's current state but here's an example of what it can do with some cloud computing, which is one of the main advantages and soon to be available to all.

http://www.3dartistonline.com/news/2011 ... m=facebook

I'm a little ticked that it's not going to be included in 2012. Surely it can't be that hard to implement.

Maybe in the next SAP I hope.

luceric
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Re: Softimage 2012

Post by luceric » 11 Mar 2011, 15:57

why did that simple static scene require cloud computing?

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ActionArt
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Re: Softimage 2012

Post by ActionArt » 11 Mar 2011, 18:57

luceric wrote:why did that simple static scene require cloud computing?
Did you play the video?

http://83.222.230.165/eurosport/smooth/default.html

It wasn't static.

Anyway, is there hope of getting this in the near future?

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Re: Softimage 2012

Post by luceric » 11 Mar 2011, 23:25

yeah I looked at the video, it's a fly through in a static scene. The smoke and shimmer are probably 2D effects. iRay doesn't even do motion blur. I'm not aware that getting iRay in Softimage would give you any cloud computing -- does that mean that you would still miss this 'main advantage'?

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ActionArt
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Re: Softimage 2012

Post by ActionArt » 12 Mar 2011, 01:36

I assumed, maybe wrongly, that if Iray was integrated/active in SI that one would be able to simply export a scene from SI designed for Iray to a cloud computing center and get your results back in a few minutes/hours instead of days. The benefits seem simple enough. Motion blur isn't always necessary.

It seemed like Iray would make a great addition to the render region tool where you could get quick previews while modeling. While modeling the object is likely simple enough to fit in GPU RAM.

It seemed that since Iray came with MR that it wouldn't be too involved to activate it in SI but these are all observations from the outside and I could be completely wrong.

I'd really like to hear what SI has planned for Iray if anything since SI seems committed to MR as the main renderer. I was surprised when it wasn't part of 2012, also considering that Iray will likely develop over time to be more useful.

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