Houdini Indie Teaser

News concerning 3D DCC business
angus_davidson
Posts: 583
Joined: 20 Dec 2012, 05:13
Skype: ithacapellin

Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by angus_davidson » 08 Aug 2014, 13:58

When I get the money Ill be buying Modo standalone. ;) Luckily it one of them that you can still buy a permanent license of tat has decent upgrade offers
--
Technomancer at Digital Arts
Wits University

angus_davidson
Posts: 583
Joined: 20 Dec 2012, 05:13
Skype: ithacapellin

Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by angus_davidson » 08 Aug 2014, 14:08

Going to be very interesting to see how Sidefx listened to their Softimage refugees with the upcoming 14.0 release
--
Technomancer at Digital Arts
Wits University

User avatar
MauricioPC
Moderator
Posts: 1085
Joined: 16 Sep 2013, 13:39

Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by MauricioPC » 08 Aug 2014, 14:25

angus_davidson wrote:Going to be very interesting to see how Sidefx listened to their Softimage refugees with the upcoming 14.0 release
That's what I'm looking forward more Angus. I don't like Modo, don't know why, it doesn't click with me modeling wise. Maybe I'm to used to the Autodesk modeling way, lol.

If Houdini improves the modeling to something similar to Softimage, than Houdini will be my only choice. If not, I'm actually considering a Maya LT combo with Houdini FX Indie. If you think about it, for under $1k, you would have a very powerful pipeline.


Unfortunately, for me at least, I've given up on C4D. I was expecting some nice additions but it hasn't changed much and the price is right up there to Maya and 3ds Max and it's just crazy. I don't like Modo that much, but I don't see why buy C4D instead of Modo anymore.

angus_davidson
Posts: 583
Joined: 20 Dec 2012, 05:13
Skype: ithacapellin

Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by angus_davidson » 08 Aug 2014, 14:36

At the end of the day you have to work in what you feel comfortable in. I have a lot of respect for folks that can continually grind their balls against the cheese grater that is Maya to get to the point that they comfortable in it.

For me post softimage the package that feels intuitive and easy for me to do things is Modo , but it doesn't mean its the only good thing out there.

Houdini is strong in a lot of areas, but lets face it currently that doesnt include creating your standard character meshes. luckily there are things like Zbrush, 3d Coat, even Silo (which seems to be coming alive again) All of these can plug the areas where Houdini is weak.

While this has been a sad time its also been very exciting because of all of the options available. With SigGraph week kicking off its going to be one hell of a time to be in the 3D industry.
--
Technomancer at Digital Arts
Wits University

pcd
Posts: 35
Joined: 01 Apr 2014, 08:49

Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by pcd » 09 Aug 2014, 09:15

Well, to me it's a FANTASTIC deal. I am not sure though if i get all the updates with Indie(like you do when you buy full license) so i wait until they release 14 so i can have that in my pocket. I started to learn a bit few months ago and i am very impressed with the software. As with all other software there are things witch can be improved. But the general idea that it's not good at characters animation it's just not true. It has an outstanding character rigging/animation toolset and it's all procedural. This means that you can change your blend shapes AFTER you rigged the character without loosing deformations and all. This aspect alone worth the price. Not to mention fluids/particles/fire/smoke etc out of the box. Ok, it's HARD to learn but once you start to feel it it's very-very good. Way above Maya. At this stage i only need to get a grasp of the texturing(i need to learn how to make shaders really fast, animate textures etc). I am a single guy working freelance and i can't afford to loose a client because of the deadline. So i need to be fully productive with the software before i change to it. BUT, at this price once version 14 is out i am all over it. I mean, comm on! Only 200$ for the HoudiniFX and no limitations to polygon count import/export and no features missing???? Have you guys looked at MayaLt thing? It limits the number of polygons and it has a LOT of missing features from Maya(no particles/fluids/HumanIk etc). I mean it's like taking Maya for 200$/year. I think i will just buy Houdini Indie and cinema 4d prime or modo and this got all my bases covered.

User avatar
Mathaeus
Posts: 1778
Joined: 08 Jun 2009, 21:11
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Contact:

Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by Mathaeus » 09 Aug 2014, 23:31

pcd wrote:It has an outstanding character rigging/animation toolset and it's all procedural. This means that you can change your blend shapes AFTER you rigged the character without loosing deformations and all. This aspect alone worth the price. Not to mention fluids/particles/fire/smoke etc out of the box. Ok, it's HARD to learn but once you start to feel it it's very-very good. Way above Maya. At this stage i only need to get a grasp of the texturing(i need to learn how to make shaders really fast, animate textures etc). I am a single guy working freelance and i can't afford to loose a client because of the deadline. So i need to be fully productive with the software before i change to it. BUT, at this price once version 14 is out i am all over it. I mean, comm on! Only 200$ for the HoudiniFX and no limitations to polygon count import/export and no features missing???? Have you guys looked at MayaLt thing? It limits the number of polygons and it has a LOT of missing features from Maya(no particles/fluids/HumanIk etc). I mean it's like taking Maya for 200$/year. I think i will just buy Houdini Indie and cinema 4d prime or modo and this got all my bases covered.
Great offer, but, for characters, deformations and rigs, I'd really wait to see the improvements in upcoming version. Halfdan (former SI developer, now working for Side FX) already said something about. here on forum. For now, playback/evaluation seems to be nowhere close to Maya or SI, and this is proven repellent for animators. Latest version of Maya LT has more a symbolic limitation of exported polygons, there is 'sent to Unity' option, without any limit.

Anyway, if they only started with this approach, around ten years ago. It was much easier to misuse the tool in these times. For small example, simple setup of XSI render passes, together wit dirtmap shader, turned out the XSI Foundation 4 into probably best baking tool of these times.
Today, there are sooo many of specialized tools all around, for every aspect of work. Not easy to match them with just one app, despite how it is theoretically powerful.

pcd
Posts: 35
Joined: 01 Apr 2014, 08:49

Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by pcd » 10 Aug 2014, 11:34

Mathaeus wrote: Great offer, but, for characters, deformations and rigs, I'd really wait to see the improvements in upcoming version. Halfdan (former SI developer, now working for Side FX) already said something about. here on forum. For now, playback/evaluation seems to be nowhere close to Maya or SI, and this is proven repellent for animators. Latest version of Maya LT has more a symbolic limitation of exported polygons, there is 'sent to Unity' option, without any limit.

Anyway, if they only started with this approach, around ten years ago. It was much easier to misuse the tool in these times. For small example, simple setup of XSI render passes, together wit dirtmap shader, turned out the XSI Foundation 4 into probably best baking tool of these times.
Today, there are sooo many of specialized tools all around, for every aspect of work. Not easy to match them with just one app, despite how it is theoretically powerful.
Yes and no. I don't have any issues with playback even with fluids simulations so not sure what your problem is. Just share your scene with me and i will try to help you - and if i can't, then the guys on H forums will 100% do it. But let's clear one thing up. We are not talking here just Unity, we talk about a full blown animation studio with rigging/hair and fur/particles/fluids/pbr/MOCAP(yes, you can do work with MOCAP within Houdini at a pro level) etc for 200$/year. The MayaLT does not have any of the Houdini Indie dynamics/export&import/hair and fur etc tools. There is no comparison between them from a business point of view. You do have a point. They could do some improvements on the UV land and some modeling tweaks. Also the materials nodal system could be a bit more user friendly(it is so freaking vast and not so intuitive). But can you show me a piece of software that does not need improvements? I think most of the things said about Houdini come from not working with the software. It was always regarded as a specialized tool for special effects. I was also convinced that Houdini is not good at all for animation/rigging/modeling etc. Well after actually using the thing for some time i can guarantee you that it's not true, quite the opposite. And one more thing. At this price i can use it with Modo/Cinema4d and that's it, i am covered. I will do any amount of work/study for stay away from Autodesk as far as i can. After they killed XSI i will touch them from a mile away. So far the ONLY software that can do everything i need for my animation studio looks to be Houdini. It is hard to learn, but i will couple it with Modo or Cinema 4d. It is either this combo, or going the Autodesk path again. Maybe not so much hate towards Autodesk, but towards that Maya thing. Boy i CAN'T work on that thing no matter what, i pure and simply hate that piece of junk. This was the reason i worked on XSI in the first place - and then discovered how much better was(and it will still be) on all levels. You can of course choose your own software(that is if you have the luxury of choosing as i do; i know many folks needs to stick to whatever their studios force them to use). I am just saying that you should really give this one a serious trial. I already gone Houdini path and at my age this is going to be my last software. Wish you and all the guys all the best in the world, it's a tough time for everyone...
Constantin

User avatar
Mathaeus
Posts: 1778
Joined: 08 Jun 2009, 21:11
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Contact:

Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by Mathaeus » 10 Aug 2014, 13:39

pcd, thank You kindly for long post. Hope I'll read this one day.
Here's Halfdan's post I've mentioned, quoted from here
halfdan wrote:
Mathaeus wrote:
MauricioPC wrote:They said that it's fixed but it's only coming out in the next version, right? Or I understood wrong?
most likely, this means, that playback and scene evaluation power, well known from SI and Maya, simply does not exist in Houdini. It can't be "fixed", because there is nothing to fix. I'm pretty sure, nothing related to this available for download too, daily or hourly.
And... by the way, how many daily fixes can be done by such team, in reality. Who's request has priority. By large company or by small team.
Nope. It's actually fixed. The changes are just too extensive to back-port to the 13.0 daily build.

No-one gets a preferential treatment for the daily bug fixes. If they are show-stoppers, we drop other things and work on them, unless they're really unfixable without breaking compatibility, in which case we will do what we can to provide you with a workaround.

If you're curious, you can have a look at the logs for the daily builds and judge for yourself.

pcd
Posts: 35
Joined: 01 Apr 2014, 08:49

Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by pcd » 10 Aug 2014, 14:06

Mathaeus wrote:pcd, thank You kindly for long post. Hope I'll read this one day.
Here's Halfdan's post I've mentioned, quoted from ........

most likely, this means, that playback and scene evaluation power, well known from SI and Maya, simply does not exist in Houdini. It can't be "fixed", because there is nothing to fix. I'm pretty sure, nothing related to this available for download too, daily or hourly.
And... by the way, how many daily fixes can be done by such team, in reality. Who's request has priority. By large company or by small team.
Nope. It's actually fixed. The changes are just too extensive to back-port to the 13.0 daily build. No-one gets a preferential treatment for the daily bug fixes. If they are show-stoppers, we drop other things and work on them, unless they're really unfixable without breaking compatibility, in which case we will do what we can to provide you with a workaround.
Mathaeus,
Two things for you. One: all i see is your claim that Houdini has issues with playback and 'scene evaluation power'(whatever the hell that means). Again, this is just a false statement, Houdini is used in huge productions including games so not quite true. And second one: until such time you actually read what others write there is no conversation. So i will stop what i thought to be a dialog with a colleague. Turn out that you are just a guy pissed of at some software that happens to be Houdini. Well this is fair enough from my point of view, since i can't stand that JUNK OF A SOFTWARE MAYA. Looks like we are even on this front.

Moderator edit: let's keep it friendly... - HB

User avatar
Mathaeus
Posts: 1778
Joined: 08 Jun 2009, 21:11
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Contact:

Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by Mathaeus » 10 Aug 2014, 21:51

Just to clarify, I did try it around 2012, let's say enough to figure out how it's not competitor to Maya or SI, when it comes to deformations, rigs, key framing. In meantime, heard the same from other people. But all that doesn't matter, once Houdini developer confirmed that there is a room for improvement, and they are working on it. In short, sometime after next release, I'd believe I'll get the copy. Hope this in enough of faith to show :) ,from my side. Won't be only love, anyway.

pcd
Posts: 35
Joined: 01 Apr 2014, 08:49

Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by pcd » 11 Aug 2014, 08:11

Mathaeus wrote:Just to clarify, I did try it around 2012, let's say enough to figure out how it's not competitor to Maya or SI, when it comes to deformations, rigs, key framing. In meantime, heard the same from other people. But all that doesn't matter, once Houdini developer confirmed that there is a room for improvement, and they are working on it. In short, sometime after next release, I'd believe I'll get the copy. Hope this in enough of faith to show :) ,from my side. Won't be only love, anyway.

To be fair i tried it too in 2009-2010 and throw it away - i guess being all over XSI did not invested too much time in it. But there are massive improvements done with each iteration so you will find it very much changed now. I have no love towards any software, i use whatever gets my job done - well, except for maya. Trouble with houdini is that if you just try it's not enough, you need to really learn. The workflow is very different from everything else - i still have a very difficult time with texturing. But it has the only replacement for ICE - VEX - so i was somehow forced to do a serious learning this time. I need to do all my work in just 1 package(max 2) and be able to do fluids/fire etc also. So this kinda limited my choice to houdini. But yea, for some people just won't cut it so i guess MayaLT for them.
Last edited by pcd on 11 Aug 2014, 14:24, edited 1 time in total.

Lord Futzi Voldemort
Posts: 440
Joined: 06 Jun 2009, 14:01
Contact:

Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by Lord Futzi Voldemort » 11 Aug 2014, 13:58

pcd wrote:Well, to me it's a FANTASTIC deal. I am not sure though if i get all the updates with Indie(like you do when you buy full license) so i wait until they release 14 so i can have that in my pocket. I started to learn a bit few months ago and i am very impressed with the software. As with all other software there are things witch can be improved. But the general idea that it's not good at characters animation it's just not true. It has an outstanding character rigging/animation toolset and it's all procedural. This means that you can change your blend shapes AFTER you rigged the character without loosing deformations and all. This aspect alone worth the price. Not to mention fluids/particles/fire/smoke etc out of the box. Ok, it's HARD to learn but once you start to feel it it's very-very good. Way above Maya. At this stage i only need to get a grasp of the texturing(i need to learn how to make shaders really fast, animate textures etc). I am a single guy working freelance and i can't afford to loose a client because of the deadline. So i need to be fully productive with the software before i change to it. BUT, at this price once version 14 is out i am all over it. I mean, comm on! Only 200$ for the HoudiniFX and no limitations to polygon count import/export and no features missing???? Have you guys looked at MayaLt thing? It limits the number of polygons and it has a LOT of missing features from Maya(no particles/fluids/HumanIk etc). I mean it's like taking Maya for 200$/year. I think i will just buy Houdini Indie and cinema 4d prime or modo and this got all my bases covered.
Absolutely. For me it is a no brainer. With alembic and fbx in and out and the engine for 99 bucks it's like a unipurpose plugin. And a good way to start a slow transition.
I'm now part of an endangered species...

pcd
Posts: 35
Joined: 01 Apr 2014, 08:49

Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by pcd » 11 Aug 2014, 14:33

Lord Futzi Voldemort wrote:
pcd wrote:Well, ...

Absolutely. For me it is a no brainer. With alembic and fbx in and out and the engine for 99 bucks it's like a unipurpose plugin. And a good way to start a slow transition.
Yea, this is the word: slow. I can't wait to see what's new in 14, but i will purchase no matter what. You can purchase up to 3 licenses per freelancer/studio so you can also have 3 render tokens. And yea, forget about the engine stuff, but i don't need it. I only need the main app and maybe one more render token. So worst case scenario is like 400$/year. I don't really like to rent soft, but what other options do i have? So far none, at least not at this price tag.

Bellsey
Posts: 688
Joined: 19 Apr 2010, 11:50
Location: London, UnitedKingdom
Contact:

Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by Bellsey » 11 Aug 2014, 15:15

@pcd - just a point of note, reading some previous posts, I think you're getting confused on MayaLT. Comparing MayaLT to this new Houdini offering doesn't really work because MayaLT is aimed at indie games developers only. This is why features such as particles, dynamics and some rendering are not included, and some game specific features are included. MayaLT isn't really aimed at people doing any kinda of film/tv/commercial work.

User avatar
MauricioPC
Moderator
Posts: 1085
Joined: 16 Sep 2013, 13:39

Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by MauricioPC » 11 Aug 2014, 15:24

Bellsey wrote:@pcd - just a point of note, reading some previous posts, I think you're getting confused on MayaLT. Comparing MayaLT to this new Houdini offering doesn't really work because MayaLT is aimed at indie games developers only. This is why features such as particles, dynamics and some rendering are not included, and some game specific features are included. MayaLT isn't really aimed at people doing any kinda of film/tv/commercial work.
I guess the main point is that there's none Autodesk offer that could come even close to rival what SideFX is doing for the freelancer/small studio. And since there's no more Softimage, people are really looking to run away from Autodesk (besides who need to work on what is industry standard).

But yeah, different markets. But, at the moment Houdini has some more friendly modeling tools, this Houdini Indie will be a rock on AD shoes (and other companies as well).

Bellsey
Posts: 688
Joined: 19 Apr 2010, 11:50
Location: London, UnitedKingdom
Contact:

Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by Bellsey » 11 Aug 2014, 15:38

Yes true enough. Though of course, the Indie offering also has some commercial limitations, which our stuff doesn't:

The annual gross revenue of commercial entities and contracting entities does not exceed $100K USD
Commercial entities and contracting entities can purchase a maximum of 3 Houdini Indie and 3 Houdini Engine licenses
Houdini Indie cannot be used in the same pipeline as commercial versions of Houdini
Houdini Indie uses its own file format for saving scenes and assets
It is restricted to 1920x1080 when rendering out animations

However for some people, these won't be a problem.

Interesting move by SideFX though.

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: trendiction [Bot] and 43 guests