Houdini Indie Teaser

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luceric
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Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by luceric » 11 Aug 2014, 15:51

Bellsey wrote:The annual gross revenue of commercial entities and contracting entities does not exceed $100K USD.
wow! if you have three seats and can't make 100k.. you're an indie in the sense of working on one indy film or mobile startup. not a small/freelance studio. you can't pay your employees.

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MauricioPC
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Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by MauricioPC » 11 Aug 2014, 16:45

luceric wrote:
Bellsey wrote:The annual gross revenue of commercial entities and contracting entities does not exceed $100K USD.
wow! if you have three seats and can't make 100k.. you're an indie in the sense of working on one indy film or mobile startup. not a small/freelance studio. you can't pay your employees.
Let's see ... so if you are a company of 3 people/artists, like there's a lot here in Brazil. I'm just making some rough math.

Adobe CC (yeah, I don't like it, but it's cheap) - $ 50/per user/per month x3 people = $ 150/month or $ 1800/year
Houdini Indie - $ 199/per user/per year x3 people = $ 597/year
Houdini Engine - $ 99/per user/per year x3 people = $ 297/year

That way you have a 3D solution, a 2D solution, a compositing program and a editing program. All for $ 2694/year. And that with 6 render nodes for Mantra (not great, but for a small team is okay). Now you have to add some costs of renting, internet, telephone, water, light, and computer power.

Let's say you spend $ 30.000/year for the whole operation (software, hardware, logistics). You are left with $ 70.000/year of income. If you divide this for 3 artists per month, each one would have an salary of $ 1944,44. While not ideal, keep in mind that the average minimum wage here in Brazil is about $ 317. So you are gaining a lot of money. :)

Of course I'm pushing a little, ideally this should suit a two man team. But you can't compare Houdini Indie to Maya LT, so what's to compare? If you compare it to Maya, you would spend a lot more. Just on Maya licenses you would spend $ 4410/year.

Yes, we all know that there's no limitations on Maya, BUT, to start small, Houdini Indie is more suited.

Now, if you are a one man studio ... you would spend per year $ 1494 for software. Let's keep the whole cost of operation to $ 30.000/year. So you are above the average Canadian income.

P.S.: Just to make sure, I'm not discussing ease of use of the software. While I don't like Maya, you probably get up to speed faster on it. But, if I were to start a one man studio or a team, I would never choose Maya. 3ds Max is more suited for a one man solution or a two/three men team. It's fast to get of the ground and start producing results. Again, all IMO.

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Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by Mathaeus » 11 Aug 2014, 16:55

pcd wrote:Trouble with houdini is that if you just try it's not enough
Or you have not enough of blind faith to forget what is missing. You can workout the missing part only to some extent - beyond some extent, only developer can do.
The rest is a sort of, let's call it, switch context. All the time, you don't actually helping the Houdini as 3d app, not at all. All you want to say is how you are able to do , what ( in your opinion) others can't. If all Houdini users are like you, I won't step in - for moral reasons.

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Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by Mathaeus » 11 Aug 2014, 17:26

luceric wrote:
Bellsey wrote:The annual gross revenue of commercial entities and contracting entities does not exceed $100K USD.
wow! if you have three seats and can't make 100k.. you're an indie in the sense of working on one indy film or mobile startup. not a small/freelance studio. you can't pay your employees.
Yeah, actually it has sense for hobbyist who want to take some money from time to time - even it's hard to imagine, how Houdini could fit into this kind of jobs. Blender plus Octane or standalone V-ray, looks like soo much stronger option in this field.

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Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by angus_davidson » 11 Aug 2014, 17:46

If you have a decent Alembic pipeline Octane is a really good renderer. Not to expensive to buy. has plugins for pretty much everything.. had all 10 of the lab computers providing their GPU's for one of my tests and the results were very good.
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Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by Lord Futzi Voldemort » 11 Aug 2014, 17:57

Bellsey wrote:@pcd - just a point of note, reading some previous posts, I think you're getting confused on MayaLT. Comparing MayaLT to this new Houdini offering doesn't really work because MayaLT is aimed at indie games developers only. This is why features such as particles, dynamics and some rendering are not included, and some game specific features are included. MayaLT isn't really aimed at people doing any kinda of film/tv/commercial work.
Narrowing the the target group for a product is usually the first step for underfunding ;)

That being said, lowering the pricing of a product to adress potential customers may have the same effect. I hope sidefx are knowing what they do ;)
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Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by Lord Futzi Voldemort » 11 Aug 2014, 18:02

luceric wrote:
Bellsey wrote:The annual gross revenue of commercial entities and contracting entities does not exceed $100K USD.
wow! if you have three seats and can't make 100k.. you're an indie in the sense of working on one indy film or mobile startup. not a small/freelance studio. you can't pay your employees.
I would end up with three seats and three engines and no employees at all, but 6 rendernodes for less than a suite subscription per year. Nothing wrong with that ;) Don't always think "companies". Many indie artists like me have their own small studio. I'm really happy that someone at last is recognizing that. Sidefx is aiming right between my eyes :D
Last edited by Lord Futzi Voldemort on 11 Aug 2014, 18:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by Bellsey » 11 Aug 2014, 18:04

Lord Futzi Voldemort wrote:
Bellsey wrote:@pcd - just a point of note, reading some previous posts, I think you're getting confused on MayaLT. Comparing MayaLT to this new Houdini offering doesn't really work because MayaLT is aimed at indie games developers only. This is why features such as particles, dynamics and some rendering are not included, and some game specific features are included. MayaLT isn't really aimed at people doing any kinda of film/tv/commercial work.
Narrowing the the target group for a product is usually the first step for underfunding ;)
Actually I wouldn't necessarily agree with that, and if you look at MayaLT that hasn't been the case. In fact, MayaLT has some things that aren't in Maya.

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Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by Lord Futzi Voldemort » 11 Aug 2014, 18:05

Bellsey wrote:
Lord Futzi Voldemort wrote:
Bellsey wrote:@pcd - just a point of note, reading some previous posts, I think you're getting confused on MayaLT. Comparing MayaLT to this new Houdini offering doesn't really work because MayaLT is aimed at indie games developers only. This is why features such as particles, dynamics and some rendering are not included, and some game specific features are included. MayaLT isn't really aimed at people doing any kinda of film/tv/commercial work.
Narrowing the the target group for a product is usually the first step for underfunding ;)
Actually I wouldn't necessarily agree with that, and if you look at MayaLT that hasn't been the case. In fact, MayaLT has some things that aren't in Maya.
Give it some time ....
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Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by Bellsey » 11 Aug 2014, 18:16

Lord Futzi Voldemort wrote: Give it some time ....
I do like reading your assumptions. :-) Of course your logic should equally apply to other vendors.

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Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by Hirazi Blue » 11 Aug 2014, 18:20

Lord Futzi Voldemort wrote:Sidefx is aiming right between my eyes :D
...which I wouldn't necessarily consider a good thing... 8-}

The real no-brainer when choosing between Houdini Indie and Maya LT is that we're (still?) living - like it or not - in a Maya-centric industry,
which might undo all the virtues of Houdini Indie come decision making time...
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Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by Lord Futzi Voldemort » 11 Aug 2014, 18:42

Bellsey wrote:
Lord Futzi Voldemort wrote: Give it some time ....
I do like reading your assumptions. :-) Of course your logic should equally apply to other vendors.
Well, at least I wasn't very surprised by the events earlier this year...
But of course, this logic applies to the whole industry, that's why I hope sidefx knows what they are doing.
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MauricioPC
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Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by MauricioPC » 11 Aug 2014, 19:40

Hirazi Blue wrote:
Lord Futzi Voldemort wrote:Sidefx is aiming right between my eyes :D
...which I wouldn't necessarily consider a good thing... 8-}

The real no-brainer when choosing between Houdini Indie and Maya LT is that we're (still?) living - like it or not - in a Maya-centric industry,
which might undo all the virtues of Houdini Indie come decision making time...
Yes, but this industry is breaking in some places. I wonder if keeping with what the industry do is the right path.

Like buying software just because the industry use it.

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Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by pcd » 11 Aug 2014, 21:28

Bellsey wrote:@pcd - just a point of note, reading some previous posts, I think you're getting confused on MayaLT. Comparing MayaLT to this new Houdini offering doesn't really work because MayaLT is aimed at indie games developers only. This is why features such as particles, dynamics and some rendering are not included, and some game specific features are included. MayaLT isn't really aimed at people doing any kinda of film/tv/commercial work.
I am anyway but confused. I am not interested to whom is addressed MayaLT, i am only interested in two things: price and feature set. On both accounts, for my use, MayaLT is not an option. I compared the two offers for indie on the market; if sidefx covers all the bases and you guys don't it's not my fault. Sure, i am only interested on my personal situation, for others it might be a solution. For me it's not. But since Houdini Indie you folks really have a problem. It's an aggressive move from sidefx to move from a specialized package to a general usage one. So far you have nothing in your offer to counter this. I would love to see this situation changed though, it will be beneficial for all in the market, yours truly included. Isn't competition so much nicer for consumers then monopoly? ;)
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Mathaeus
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Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by Mathaeus » 11 Aug 2014, 21:32

angus_davidson wrote:If you have a decent Alembic pipeline Octane is a really good renderer. Not to expensive to buy. has plugins for pretty much everything.. had all 10 of the lab computers providing their GPU's for one of my tests and the results were very good.
Just personally, already have Modo with that ability, it already returned a small investment, even without activating the Alembic pipeline. Unfortunately, Blender is just to weak for driving habits, I've developed with Softimage.
Back to Houdini, most interesting thing for me, is Houdini engine for C4d, somehow I can't resist to be Santa Claus :), also c4d community seems to be ready to reward for small goodies. But, still, a lot of exact info is needed in order to finish the puzzle.

By the way, I think I sow 'SideFX' as newest member on forum, so if someone already has a bait to get this big fish on surface.... I've already got Halfdan :) can't do again...

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Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by pcd » 11 Aug 2014, 21:41

Mathaeus wrote:
pcd wrote:Trouble with houdini is that if you just try it's not enough
Or you have not enough of blind faith to forget what is missing. You can workout the missing part only to some extent - beyond some extent, only developer can do.
The rest is a sort of, let's call it, switch context. All the time, you don't actually helping the Houdini as 3d app, not at all. All you want to say is how you are able to do , what ( in your opinion) others can't. If all Houdini users are like you, I won't step in - for moral reasons.
I am in now way saying that the software is perfect. I have actually done at least 6 requests to improve different areas of the software from animation to GUI display(mainly animation from my part; but there are dozens of requests for modeling too from other former/current xsi folks). At least 1 of them is confirmed to me by one top developer that is going into next version. And i am not involved in anyway whatsoever with sidefx i am just a freelancer. Now this is some NEW attitude to me from a big company. So if you want to know if i am doing something to help the app; well i just asked the developers to bring improvements in the missing areas. Hope i answered your question.

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