Duplicate Faces in Maya?

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Rez007
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Duplicate Faces in Maya?

Post by Rez007 » 15 Oct 2015, 00:58

Hello,

I am starting and continuing the process of learning Maya, and some things that I used in Softimage, I am surprised are not in Maya. Maybe I am doing it wrong. When I model in Softimage I used the ctrl+D (duplicate) so many times on faces, edges, etc., it really sped my modeling up majorly. In Maya, I seem to only be able to duplicate objects, not faces or edges...If I press ctrl+E I am allowed to extrude, but that always brings up a PPG and before you know it you have a massive history stack of extrudes. Plus, I always do not need a PPG full of options (rarely do I need that). There should be a slimmed down, and cleaner way, to duplicate sub-objects. Is there no way to duplicate sub-object properties in Maya? I am hoping I am doing something wrong, but that kind of seems very archaic to me and really slows down modeling.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

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Mathaeus
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Re: Duplicate Faces in Maya?

Post by Mathaeus » 15 Oct 2015, 02:04

I think there's option to do not separate duplicated faces. If you running it from context menu (shift+RMB when you're in face component mode), or from main menu, call for option is a small rectangle next to 'duplicate face' (or something close to this name). By the way, Maya remembers the particular setting - so once you choose to do not separate, it will not separate again, in entire Maya session.
You can track what's going on, by looking into script editor. From there you'll know names, if you want to create custom shortcut.

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Re: Duplicate Faces in Maya?

Post by Rez007 » 15 Oct 2015, 18:49

Hi Mathaeus,

Thanks for the help, but I think we are looking at two different things. In Maya, the duplicate function stops at the object level, and does not go into the sub-object level. You get an error in Maya that says " error: there are no objects to duplicate." In Softimage, when modeling, duplicate (ctrl+d) would work on the sub-object level too. Example in Softimage; I have a box with multiple faces and I decide to select those faces, or just a single face. I then press ctrl+d and it will duplicate the selected face(s) and they just in place until I do something with them. Being already in the translate (move) tool, I then just pull out those faces to my desired distance (while keeping the faces attached to the main area). This way is extremely fast to model in Softimage, and I don't have to deal with a pop-up every single time I do this. However, if I want the more precise measurements, or options, then I still have an "extrude" function available to me, if needed.

In Maya, there is no way (at least that I have found) to just duplicate a face and pull it out, or duplicate a face and scale it, etc. I have to use the ctrl+e (extrude function) every single time to do this. When you do this, it pops up every gizmo in existence - takes you out of the translate gizmo that you might have currently been in - and it displays a pop-up of options. I saw where you can select what you want displayed in this menu, but that is not what I am after. I currently see no reason why the Maya team (in their "humanize" Maya initiative) can't extend the duplicate function down to the sub-object level. This will then still allow me to keep the normal extrude command in Maya without having to reset preferences and build up a huge history or extrudes.

In essence, ctrl+d should work the exact same way it does at the main object level.

I hope that better explains what I mean, and having this in Maya would be a major speed improvement for modeling. It seems like a small request, but it is not - it does make a big difference in modeling, and I really am surprised why it doesn't exist in Maya. To me, it seems like they might have decided to just arbitrarily stop the duplicate function at the object level - doesn't make any sense really.

I do appreciate your response and help. Do you, or anyone, know by chance in who to get in contact with at Autodesk to suggest needed features?

Thanks!

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Re: Duplicate Faces in Maya?

Post by luceric » 15 Oct 2015, 19:08

"Duplicate" a component does not exist, that's just a nomenclature softimage, and only Softimage, uses. It's an extrude operation in every other app. The face is never "duplicated", there is a new set of polygons created around it. The Ctrl+D hotkey in Softimage calls two different commands depending on what's selected.
Rez007 wrote:.If I press ctrl+E I am allowed to extrude, but that always brings up a PPG and before you know it you have a massive history stack of extrudes. Plus, I always do not need a PPG full of options (rarely do I need that).
Ctrl+E in 2016 is kind of similar with Ctrl+D. There is a small on-screen editor for the manip with 5 parameters, that you can move off, hide or ignore. It's the parameters of the extrude manipulator, which maybe you have hidden, because you don't need to translate tool to move the extruded face.

XSI also adds an operator for each extrude, move, etc.. it's all very similar, although there is no extrude manip, which is a bit better. If you turn off the modeling history in Maya, you'll have the extra step of switching back to the translate tool after I think, so it's not 100% the same but you could wrap extrude and translate tool switch in a hotkey

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Re: Duplicate Faces in Maya?

Post by Rez007 » 15 Oct 2015, 20:14

Hi Luceric,

Thanks for replying and the clarification of the naming with Softimage versus other software. Yes, in Maya 2016 Crtl+E is pretty much the same thing as Ctrl+D, it is just not as clean. That seems to be the way that Maya handles it, also it is a different series of button presses, where Softimage was the same, and you still have a more advanced option if you went to the actual Extrude in the menu. In Maya, there really should be two ways to do this. I am not looking to change my extrude setup (how Maya originally has it) in case I do want those extra options at some time. But, for the majority of my quick clean modeling, I do not want a menu to pop-up all the time, nor have to switch what gizmos get displayed in the option box. I have a fresh install of Maya 2016 Ext. 1 SP3 installed and I am just getting into it, so everything is set as default. I like to learn in a default setup so everything is "as is" in the learning stages.

My suggestion, as modeling in Softimage is really fast, is perhaps to extend the Ctrl+D in Maya down to the sub-object level as well, this way it can be super fast and clean, and keep the Crtl+E, as is, in case I want the extra options, because as it is now, I feel that Crtl+E is very cumbersome and does not need all of that at once (i.e. all translate/rotate/scaling gizmos, plus a pop-up that defines in local coordinates, all at once), but still let that function be present if I need those choices for more precise operations at a later time.

As I mentioned, it might seem trivial, but I think it is an area that can be easily fixed. When I watch modeling training videos for Maya, it just seems much slower than what I could do in Softimage, and this is one of those areas that could make it faster and cleaner. I have never been a "fanboy" of software and I do not mind learning new things, but when something is done so logically, and elegantly, in one software, I would like to think it is something that should be looked at and considered as something to be adjusted. Setting up hotkeys does not always work as I might have a lot of them then, because sometimes I would Crtl+D a group of polygons and (while being already in the scale tool) I can do a very quick inset, etc. - in Softimage.
luceric wrote:"Duplicate" a component does not exist, that's just a nomenclature softimage, and only Softimage, uses. It's an extrude operation in every other app. The face is never "duplicated", there is a new set of polygons created around it. The Ctrl+D hotkey in Softimage calls two different commands depending on what's selected.
I do realize I have a lot of learning ahead of me, but your quote is exactly how I think it should be handled in Maya - super clean and quick - all while keeping me in the same transform tool that I am in without all the added bells and whistle popping up, as default.

I hope you guys are open to suggestions, as I have some more for modeling, but I do realize it is also myself adapting to new software that needs to take place. If you can please note my request, and perhaps add it in a SP, it would be much appreciated.

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Re: Duplicate Faces in Maya?

Post by luceric » 15 Oct 2015, 23:18

yeah, I've discussed your feedback with the maya modelling designer

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geoath
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Re: Duplicate Faces in Maya?

Post by geoath » 16 Oct 2015, 11:52

@Rez007: Personally i find the behavior between Maya and Soft in "duplicate faces" (extrude tool in Maya) very similar. You can ignore the tab that pops in Maya and instead use the manipulator that shows. By default in Maya is activated the transform manipulator, so just click any of the scale axis to activate scaling, and drag the center blue cube to "inset".
If you don't find it "friendly" to work with the manipulators, after you call the extrude command press the transform hotkey you want (w/e/r) and go from there. This is similar to what i used to do in soft (ctrl+d to create an extrude operator with 0 value and then use transform hotkeys).

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Re: Duplicate Faces in Maya?

Post by Rez007 » 17 Oct 2015, 00:32

luceric wrote:yeah, I've discussed your feedback with the maya modelling designer
Thank you very much Luceric, for taking the time to look into it and sending it to the person in charge of that area. It is much appreciated, and I hope the modelling designer is able to get that added.


@geoath - they are similar, but it is still different and I think having it added would be a great benefit in speed, while keeping things clean and efficient, especially since CRTL+D is still available (not linked to anything) in the sub-object mode. When I started modeling in Maya, it just became very cumbersome so that is why I wanted to mention it. If it was something that I didn't do often, I probably would have not said anything, but it is a function that I use heavily, and very often, along with splitting edges, and I think it would be a welcome addition. :)

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Re: Duplicate Faces in Maya?

Post by myara » 28 Nov 2015, 13:00

You could simulate XSI Duplicate with scripting. I use this script in my ctrl+D hotkey:

Code: Select all

//mel
// Extrude & Duplicate ala XSI

global proc xsiDuplicate(){
	string $sel[] = `ls -sl`;
	string $filterPoly[] = `filterExpand -sm 34 $sel`;
	string $filterEdges[] = `filterExpand -sm 32 $sel`;
	string $filterPoints[] = `filterExpand -sm 31 $sel`;

	// Points :
	if (size($filterPoints)>0){
	    polyExtrudeVertex -constructionHistory 1 -width 0.2 -length 0 -divisions 1;
    }
	// Polygons : Extrude
	else if (size($filterPoly)>0){
        polyExtrudeFacet;
    }
	// Edges : Bevel
	else if (size($filterEdges)>0){
		polyBevel -offset 0.1 -oaf 1 -af 1 -segments 2 -ws 0 -fillNgons 1 -mv 1 -mvt 0.000001 -sa 30 -ma 180 -at 180 -ch 1 $filterEdges;
    }
	// Obj : Duplicate
	else{
		Duplicate;
	}
}
xsiDuplicate;
M.Yara
Character Modeler | Softimage Generalist (sort of)

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Rez007
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Re: Duplicate Faces in Maya?

Post by Rez007 » 28 Jan 2016, 19:52

@myara Thank you for posting and sharing your script. Sorry for my late response, I must have missed the notification email, and since this is kind of buried far down the main page, I totally missed it before.

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Re: Duplicate Faces in Maya?

Post by Rez007 » 15 Mar 2016, 21:07

luceric wrote:yeah, I've discussed your feedback with the maya modelling designer
Hi Luceric,

Do you by chance know if there was any traction made with this at all? It would be great to have this implemented natively in the next Maya release, or with an SP. Thanks.

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Re: Duplicate Faces in Maya?

Post by Rez007 » 13 Apr 2016, 02:33

Okay, so it looks like with SP6 (unless I missed something else) that they made the fix, but it seems to be the incorrect fix? Before, if you were in sub-object (component mode) and you pressed Ctrl+D you would get an error because nothing existed for that key setup in component mode. Now, when you press Ctrl+D while in component mode (lets say you want to duplicate some faces) you no longer get that error message, and a duplicate function does takes place, but it duplicates at the Object level, which makes things kind of messy...so while you are working in component mode, it seems to duplicate at object mode? Now you have objects sitting on top of each other.

I do appreciate the effort at Autodesk to whomever looked into it and tried to fix it, but I feel that if I do a duplicate in component mode that it should happen at that level...I'd prefer to have that error take place than how it behaves now. I might be picky, but it just seems like it is working incorrectly.

Side Note (as I am new to Maya): Does anyone know by chance where in Preferences I can change the effect of clicking in empty space? In Softimage if I am modeling in component mode (faces and such) if I click out in empty space in the screen, it deselects everything and puts me back at object level - which I like. In Maya, it just deselects my selection and keeps me in component mode, so I then have to press to go to object mode (F8, I think) and then click out in empty space, to deselect. Is there an easier, more efficient way? Just seems kind of odd, unless I am doing something wrong.

Thank You

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Re: Duplicate Faces in Maya?

Post by Mathaeus » 13 Apr 2016, 10:47

Rez007 wrote:
Side Note (as I am new to Maya): Does anyone know by chance where in Preferences I can change the effect of clicking in empty space? In Softimage if I am modeling in component mode (faces and such) if I click out in empty space in the screen, it deselects everything and puts me back at object level - which I like. In Maya, it just deselects my selection and keeps me in component mode, so I then have to press to go to object mode (F8, I think) and then click out in empty space, to deselect. Is there an easier, more efficient way? Just seems kind of odd, unless I am doing something wrong.
Don't believe this is possible to get in Maya (in easy way). Basically, what you have under "tool settings" window, that's it. It's possible to assign any hotkey to object mode and such, but not possible to assign a mouse action. Also I'd be curious to know, how you got this behavior in SI - click outside manipulator option, or what.

On positive side, Maya is pretty much interactive when it comes to preferences and settings, if "save preferences and settings when Maya exits" is enabled (I think this is default), any changed option will stay changed, in new session too - so, for extract poly into the same object, should be enough to go first to option ( small rectangle on right side), and choose how to extract - and that will be your way of extracting.

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Re: Duplicate Faces in Maya?

Post by luceric » 13 Apr 2016, 14:23

Rez007 wrote: Side Note (as I am new to Maya): Does anyone know by chance where in Preferences I can change the effect of clicking in empty space? In Softimage if I am modeling in component mode (faces and such) if I click out in empty space in the screen, it deselects everything and puts me back at object level - which I like. In Maya, it just deselects my selection and keeps me in component mode, so I then have to press to go to object mode (F8, I think) and then click out in empty space, to deselect. Is there an easier, more efficient way? Just seems kind of odd, unless I am doing something wrong.
isn't that a marking menu operation, where you RMB on the object and drag north-east to go in object mode and deselect?

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Re: Duplicate Faces in Maya?

Post by Mathaeus » 13 Apr 2016, 14:59

A bit off topic but still around the subject, I think: what is an axis or SRT rotation in tweak mode, in perspective view? I mean, rotate tool in object mode, tilde key to get it into tweak mode (so manipulator disappears, as it should). In ortho view it seems to be camera axis, but, in perspective view, I wasn't able to figure out what's happening. Didn't find answer in online docs. Or, to ask precisely, is it possible to get tweak tool to respect gimbal rotation, let's say just one axis. With move tool, tweak seems to remember the last used axis - so, if there is a way to get the same behavior with rotate tool, somehow - would be great.

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Re: Duplicate Faces in Maya?

Post by Rez007 » 15 Apr 2016, 01:40

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the info and help. My apologies, as I made a mistake about my workflow in Softimage. I was wondering why in Maya, I keep pressing the 'Space bar' while I was doing some modeling, and that turns out, is what I do in Softimage. It is basically second-nature to me and I didn't think anything of it, but I press 'Space bar' in Softimage to get to Object Mode (while being in component mode), and then click-drag to clear the selection, as I the have 'Select Tool' take place outside of the transform area. So, I did miss that step.
Mathaeus wrote:
Rez007 wrote:
Side Note (as I am new to Maya): Does anyone know by chance where in Preferences I can change the effect of clicking in empty space? In Softimage if I am modeling in component mode (faces and such) if I click out in empty space in the screen, it deselects everything and puts me back at object level - which I like. In Maya, it just deselects my selection and keeps me in component mode, so I then have to press to go to object mode (F8, I think) and then click out in empty space, to deselect. Is there an easier, more efficient way? Just seems kind of odd, unless I am doing something wrong.
Don't believe this is possible to get in Maya (in easy way). Basically, what you have under "tool settings" window, that's it. It's possible to assign any hotkey to object mode and such, but not possible to assign a mouse action. Also I'd be curious to know, how you got this behavior in SI - click outside manipulator option, or what.

On positive side, Maya is pretty much interactive when it comes to preferences and settings, if "save preferences and settings when Maya exits" is enabled (I think this is default), any changed option will stay changed, in new session too - so, for extract poly into the same object, should be enough to go first to option ( small rectangle on right side), and choose how to extract - and that will be your way of extracting.
I tried doing what you said via using the small square next to the 'Duplicate' operation, and the only options in there is to duplicate faces, which only extracts them from the mesh and either keeps them within the same Object, or can make a new one from the extraction. It, unfortunately, does not duplicate the faces and keep them attached, where I can then pull it out with ease while having it still being physically attached to the mesh - exactly like how Luceric described the process in an earlier post on here. That is more-or-less the function I am looking for. It is nice that they tried to fix it, but it seems only halfway there, as I think it should 'duplicate' at the component level I am in, and not 'duplicate' at the object level, when I am in 'component mode'

Pixologic does the same method in ZBrush, as what I am looking for. In the ZModeler brush, using the default option, when you click/tap on a surface, it instantly copies it in place, and then you just pull out and set the distance. No pop-up gets in the way. It would be nice to have both Ctrl+D (for simple and quick modeling) and Ctrl+E (for more advanced options) a la, Softimage.
luceric wrote:
isn't that a marking menu operation, where you RMB on the object and drag north-east to go in object mode and deselect?
Found it. Thank you very much. I am new to Maya, so I missed that. I think an issue I am having is that I am used to how excellent Softimage was set up at the very base level for modeling and trying to apply that to Maya. I am now trying to just learn Maya, as is, and try to fall into how things are step up within. There are some really nice tools in Maya, but sometimes I feel like my fingers are fumbling around a bit, and the speed is not there, yet. I now realize in Maya, that a lot of operations seem to be setup via the mouse to access them quicker, where I am more inclined to do quick key presses with my left hand instead, from using Softimage.

One more quick question, as I think I am going to eventually make another thread for some of these questions, but if I have the Selection Tool set to the default Marquee, and then I press 'Tab' to access the raycast ('Drag') selection version of that tool is very nice. But, if I set my Selection Tool to 'Drag' as the default, and then I press 'Tab' is does not switch to 'Marquee' mode. Is this correct? If it is, it would be nice if 'Tab' could flip operations based on what the default may be.

Thanks again guys for the help! :)

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