Learning Houdini...

Forum for users who have migrated or are migrating to Houdini
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owei
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Learning Houdini...

Post by owei » 02 Feb 2015, 15:49

Hello there!

I finally found some time to dig a little deeper into Houdini...not that I got that far, but I wondered, if someone has interest to start something like an "learning class" here at si-community. Maybe we can learn together a little more efficient than each one on his/her own. So, let me know what you think!

Cheers,
oli

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SamHowell
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Re: Learning Houdini...

Post by SamHowell » 02 Feb 2015, 16:27

Hello!

So I'm not alone. I got the impression that most Si-Community people where trying out Houdini and giving up after using the modelling tools. 8-x

I've been trying to learn Houdini myself with mixed results. It's hard to find the time while using Softimage most of the time for work. I go for weeks at a time without touching it and everything gets forgotten. Oh well it's a long road that's going to to take years but we all have to start somewhere.

I would be happy to share what little I know and I'm eager to pick up any tips from other people. There are big gaps in what I have covered so far. I am still trying to get to the stage where I replicate the basic things from Softimage. It's very tempting to jump straight into the high end stuff in Houdini and then forget the simple things.

First tip from me. Houdini is not Softimage and it never will be. Sidefx have made some massive UE improvements with the last release but before beginning you must first come to terms with the fact that Houdini is fundamentally different from all other 3D applications. You can get the same results to Softimage but the whole approach can be very different. Accept this (it took me a while) and learning it becomes a joy.


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Rork
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Re: Learning Houdini...

Post by Rork » 02 Feb 2015, 18:11

So I'm not alone. I got the impression that most Si-Community people where trying out Houdini and giving up after using the modelling tools.
After an hour or so, I decided NOT to model in Houdini for now.... ;)
I've been trying to learn Houdini myself with mixed results....
I am still trying to get to the stage where I replicate the basic things from Softimage.....
First tip from me. Houdini is not Softimage and it never will be....
Same experiences here.
You can get the same results to Softimage but the whole approach can be very different. Accept this (it took me a while) and learning it becomes a joy.
I think that will be for a lot of us, although people who didn't really like ICE or it's workflow will probably not use Houdini I guess....

I think, in addition to the SI user corner on the Houdini website, this will be a great place to share thoughts and tips as well. :)

Something like "How I do this in Houdini?" workflow tips, and differences/similarities in UI and otherwise.

rob
SI UI tutorials: Toolbar http://goo.gl/iYOL0l | Custom Layout http://goo.gl/6iP5xQ | RenderManager View http://goo.gl/b4ZkjQ
So long, and thanks for all the Fish!!

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MauricioPC
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Re: Learning Houdini...

Post by MauricioPC » 02 Feb 2015, 18:50

I think it's a great idea. Alvaro from ParticleSkull (a PFlow learning channel on Vimeo/Facebook) has started learning it as well and he said he's loving it. He already posted some tuts on his vimeo channel (below).

https://vimeo.com/particleskull







You can also start a 10-day trial of Lynda.com and watch the intro to Houdini from Scott Pagano for free. I'll start with it this weekend.

http://www.lynda.com/Houdini-tutorials/ ... 377-2.html

(link for the 10-day trial)
http://www.lynda.com/promo/trial/Defaul ... CD4063&opt


From what I've been seeing, for those who like FX (like me), Houdini is now a must. I just need to see where I'll model stuff. Probably in 3ds Max and than send it to Houdini.

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Mathaeus
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Re: Learning Houdini...

Post by Mathaeus » 02 Feb 2015, 19:21

For what it worth, I'm slowly working on small set of simple, ICE style samples of Houdini SOP and VOP. Really simple, how to create copies on polygons in ICE style and such - more as an live explanation of equivalents, set - get data, get closest location, ID to location, how to find initialized attributes and so on. Took some my time, just to sort out this stuff....
Hope I'll put this thing here, on weekend.

I've first read the PDFs by Jordi Bares.
Houdini itself comes with few a hundreds of examples, loadable from built-in docs. Of course there are a tons of explanations and examples on Houdini forums.

A few small tips from bright side:

1: not all VOP SOP stuff is "harder" than ICE. Houdini comes with impressive number of ready-to-use nodes, like curve re-sampler with even segment length as an option, node for sorting the point or polygon IDs ( yes it can do that), node for splitting the polygons by difference in attribute, like kind of turbulence pattern. Even things on edge of 'vector math pornography' :), for my taste, like 'xform' VEX node, having built in 'pivot'.

2: folder where file is saved, automatically is considered as "HIP", project folder. In practice this means, you can load downloaded examples directly from USB drive. This was crucial :), in my case.

3: v14 has a number of SI like features, new animation editor for example, should be really easy to figure out, for 'us'. It can emulate SI 'green key' by 'sample values at current time'. For all that parameters all around, there's also multiplier/divider for scrolling the values by mouse wheel, using control or shift.

In any case, for those who didn't already felt in love with ICE, beauty of dot product, Python scripting and like, well I'm not an optimist....

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Re: Learning Houdini...

Post by Bullit » 03 Feb 2015, 00:44

For me i am seeing the Particle Skull stuff, i have been following Álvaro long ago and the fact he changed from 3DsMax for Houdini came at right time.

My comments for now are the very good stability of simulations - a problem i always have with 3Dsmax and Softimage - , in Houdini it seems it just works . In 3dMax is a nightmare if you get a scene with some scaling issue, there is no fixing in fact, just have to export the stuff if can be done or start new.

But the less than desirable interface of the "Houdini tree" works and its lack of elegance.

I don't consider Houdini workable for modeling at all except maybe something parametric.

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Re: Learning Houdini...

Post by NNois » 03 Feb 2015, 01:24

Well, in my case i'm looking about just the contrary. Doing Simulated stuff is exceptionnal for me but using unsimulated particles to make really cool stuff with instances, shape instance time animating by modulating the time is a real time saver in ice and i just don't feel at home in houdini for this kind of unsimulated stuff.
Tutorial by rohan dalvi is a step in the right direction to teach how houdini could replace an average softimage artist day.

Did you know some great intro in this field ? i mean like for example the really great (and dead) monophyl blog, the eric mootz tools.
All these stuff play a really important role when you start a new job and you're in found of how you can tackle it.

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Re: Learning Houdini...

Post by Rork » 03 Feb 2015, 10:40

To get some stuff started, found these while browsing the web for videos:

- From the Houdini forum: Pyro FX2
- Vimeo: Official Houdini Channel
- Vimeo: Peter Quint's Houdini Tuts
- Vimeo: AOV's in Mantra

more to come...

rob
Last edited by Rork on 03 Feb 2015, 15:03, edited 1 time in total.
SI UI tutorials: Toolbar http://goo.gl/iYOL0l | Custom Layout http://goo.gl/6iP5xQ | RenderManager View http://goo.gl/b4ZkjQ
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SamHowell
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Re: Learning Houdini...

Post by SamHowell » 03 Feb 2015, 11:34

There is no shortage of tutorials and examples for learning the high end simulated side of Houdini. It's everything else that is lacking. It also doesn't help that a good chunk of the online resources are obsolete a lot of the time. I guess that is where we can help each other the most. All of the small things that we take for granted with Softimage suddenly become very frustrating with a new software like Houdini. When I first started I would set up a flip fluid and a pyro simulations and everything would be going great but then I would waste countless hours trying to do something really simple like moving keyframes or constraining transforms. 8-}

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Re: Learning Houdini...

Post by Paulrus » 03 Feb 2015, 13:59

Wow - glad to find this thread. I'm in exactly the same boat.

I noticed during the Digital Tutors free trial that someone had created a video called Cinema 4D for Softimage users. It would be very smart for SideFX to create something similar. I know Jordi has published his PDFs, but I tend to prefer videos.

I watched a couple of these videos: https://vimeo.com/groups/houdiniofficialtutorials/videos but the modeling tutorial for the weird couch was pretty depressing. I could build that model in less than 1/2 the time in pretty much any other software.

Sadly, for me, I can jump into something like Modo, C4D, etc., and be productive in a few hours because they share the same basic workflow as Softimage for most things. Houdini is so fundamentally different in it's workflow that I find myself frustrated just trying to do the simplest of things.

As I said on the SideFX forums. If I were a carpenter asked to build a birdhouse and 3D apps were my tools, Softimage would give me the tools I need, including the wood for the birdhouse. I could build it and then make custom changes if needed. But with Houdini, I first have to figure out how to build a hammer, saw, etc., from a bunch of components and even try to figure out how to generate my own electricity to power the tools. Then I have to go out to the forest, cut down a tree, make my own lumber, and then I can finally get started building the birdhouse - constructing totally custom "birdhouse" tools as I need them.

I also get the gut feeling that a lot of Houdini users like to build extravagant tools just to show how flexible Houdini can be, but are generally useless in production. It feels like a nerdy procedural love-fest that's really cool to learn about, but isn't really necessary for most productions.

Does that make sense?

-Paul

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Re: Learning Houdini...

Post by SamHowell » 03 Feb 2015, 14:59

Paulrus wrote:I also get the gut feeling that a lot of Houdini users like to build extravagant tools just to show how flexible Houdini can be
This is a valid point and I do know what you mean. I have had the same sensation when trawling through Houdini forums. I have to work fast and dirty a lot of the time and my supervisor and clients only care what appears in the Render View. Nobody will give you a pat on the back for creating an awesome re-usable tool.

Having said that it can be preferable to follow the procedural Houdini way if you are likely to experience many iterations and rapid changes to shots as you work. You may be very glad you took that little bit of extra time at the beginning to allow flexible control.

I think the ideal way for a Houdini artist is to build up a library of tools for all of the quick and repetitive tasks (a familiar scenario to ICE for Softies). So you may not be as productive in the beginning but I guess as time goes on once you have solved a problem once you keep that tool going forward to make yourself increasingly productive. You have to build a hammer and a saw or cut down some wood but you only need to do that once.

Anyhoo, I share you frustration. Softimage may not excel at certain things but it is so fast and versatile.

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Re: Learning Houdini...

Post by Rork » 03 Feb 2015, 15:04

Hi Sam/Paul,

I think we're all in the same boat here.

Yesterday Oliver/Owei and I were talking on the idea of setting up a specific Vimeo channel, for making the transition from SI to Houdini a little bit easier, starting with the basic stuff.
Stuff you run into every day while working, and has become second nature in SI.

Doesn't have to be complex and/or long tutorials, but just differences between certain areas, or comparison workflows. Like Jordi's PDF's, but in video form in appr. 10 min.
Just your experiences while getting familiar with Houdini, and sharing this with the rest of us.

If everybody who has the time could help out, that would make a nice set of centralized videos explaining some basics in Houdini, coming from SI. All of this linked back to this forum, and maybe the Houdini>SI users forum.

Transitioning is never easy, but I already find some things in Houdini very 'clunky' workflow wise. On the other hand some fairly complex stuff is done with a few clicks.
Hopefully some things will change in time, as I feel now I have to do too many clicks for the more 'simple' tasks.

cheers,

Rob
SI UI tutorials: Toolbar http://goo.gl/iYOL0l | Custom Layout http://goo.gl/6iP5xQ | RenderManager View http://goo.gl/b4ZkjQ
So long, and thanks for all the Fish!!

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SamHowell
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Re: Learning Houdini...

Post by SamHowell » 03 Feb 2015, 15:14

Hello Rork, I think this is a splendid idea. I'm not sure when I can find some time but I would like to contribute. I know of a few topics that I would like to cover (passes and partitions anybody?). These will be VERY basic though, I'm still very much a Houdini beginner. :-ss

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Rork
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Re: Learning Houdini...

Post by Rork » 03 Feb 2015, 16:09

Hi Sam,

The more the better ;-)

We're all beginners with Houdini, and struggling with things. So if you can find the time to record some ramblings, that would be great!!
I'm fiddling with some basics here as well, and thinking of recording that as a quick 'How To' for SI users.

rob
SI UI tutorials: Toolbar http://goo.gl/iYOL0l | Custom Layout http://goo.gl/6iP5xQ | RenderManager View http://goo.gl/b4ZkjQ
So long, and thanks for all the Fish!!

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SamHowell
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Re: Learning Houdini...

Post by SamHowell » 05 Feb 2015, 01:02

Well, here's the first one. Render passes in Houdini.

Warning. It's very rough! x_x


NNois
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Re: Learning Houdini...

Post by NNois » 05 Feb 2015, 11:01

I haven't found the specific channel, so here's one ;-) https://vimeo.com/channels/872851
Feel free to add more

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