Blender development and softimage

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Nizar
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Blender development and softimage

Post by Nizar » 06 Mar 2015, 10:31

In this link you can see the last Blender Dependency Graph evolution, a work in progress, but improving a lot blender performance (in this cases in rigging) :
http://code.blender.org/index.php/2015/ ... ph-tricks/

In this article you can see, like reference documentation, the developers take as inspiration the work done by Emilio Hernandez in his Dorrito video (where Hernandez show how ugly is maya workflow compared with softimage) and Softimage blog. They moving in the right way :D

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mc_axe
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Re: Blender development and softimage

Post by mc_axe » 06 Mar 2015, 17:24


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FXDude
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Re: Blender development and softimage

Post by FXDude » 06 Mar 2015, 22:07

Among the different things out there, Blender definitely is one that has at least as much, if not actually more potential at eventually becoming a fair XSI alternative.


Cause, at least performance-wise (for heavy deformed geo) someone here mentioned that it was not so great,
and perhaps we didn't test the same things, but I tried having quite high poly mesh deformed by a rig, saved and imported a few times, and playback, moving points etc.. was was actually very good ! (20fps with 56 heavy deformes chars.)

And the interface is generally very slick and modern with in-viewport contols for operators and things, and it seems like it could very well be (if not already) an entire production solution on it's own, (3D, Comp Editing, ...) while continuously making great strides in each of these fields.


Otherwise, one of blender's roadmap points mentionned splitting defaults or ways certain things work.

which I found funny because I remember commenting on exactly that lol
(to satify both traditional blender users, while allowing for some flexibility to change things)


So lets try that again ;p

Apart these really great advancements (arguably passing Modo in terms of rate)
that makes you wonder why people pay 4k for say 3DSMax

... I would hope that they would do what would involve making their own "humanization" efforts.

But, generally, it looks to me that they not only need to 'humanize' it, but to 'industrialize' it as well,
perhaps by making the most complex scenes as possible and adressing what may prevent good (production) performance, or flowing workflows.

I haven't investigated deeply, but first thing that jumped to my attention was the outliner.. which is almost more of a 'scene outline viewer' .

We should be able to batch select from there and reparent (and reorder and/or reorganize) on the fly in somewhat standard ways (shift-select range.. ctrl-click toggle single item selections ... )
... and What is currently (multi-)selected is not at-all clear.


- A good number people seem to first thing, switch right and left buttons.
(default is selecting with right click, and I would vouch for one of the defaults to be like that)

-If they take anything from soft, I would hope it would be the concept of 'Groups' or somehow adding measn to apply common properties to many elements, select them (while perhpas moving away from the 20 unamed layer system)
and also means to batch change settings.

-more advanced render output options .. (I guess the wish for Soft passes goes for any app)

And there are a number of things that are tricky or finnicky, like you can't easily simply duplicate a rig for example.


Perhaps literaly sitting (even if done remotely) with select users (unaware of blender)
(i think ideally either Soft or C4d users with good production experience, and ideally while using it for real productions)
to iron out all the, not the 'show', but the -flow- stoppers
and the many little thing things that you "can't do" (or "can't easily do")
which are very-much still *very* prominent IMO.

That, I would say even -Way- before concentrating on the newest (perhaps more flashy even if useful) things.



Otherwise, What is your 'beef' with Blender? or what area(s) in your opinion would need work for it to be more on par with 'the best' of them, then perhaps we could post it on their forums :)

Which I think would be quite valuable feedback with alot of wheght coming from users that have been there with one of the inhenrently most 'humanized' while capable things out there ;)

And perhaps at some point, maybe sooner than others, would it become an excellent general purpose VFX app (friendly yet powerful to the likes of XSI or Premo), and/or generally more seriously considered than it is today.

(I would find it to be a pity if they used the 'biggest' (or the most pushed) DCC's as reference points when it comes to *usability*)

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Mathaeus
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Re: Blender development and softimage

Post by Mathaeus » 07 Mar 2015, 00:41

FXDude wrote:
Otherwise, What is your 'beef' with Blender? or what area(s) in your opinion would need work for it to be more on par with 'the best' of them, then perhaps we could post it on their forums :)
Well I'm playing with it since 2.3 version of something (more than ten years ago). Love it and everything related to that, but....
- it is weak, compared to Maya, Max or SI. Nevertheless, you'll get a decent playback with 50-100 bones and 20k polygons. But any variance of high numbers won't go fast. Let's say plain SRT of twenty objects, each around 200k poly. Still real-time playback, but key in dope sheet needs second or two to fit... somewhere. There is no lazy evaluation, yet.
-interface is heritage of old one which had zoom - able 'button window' with differently sized buttons (similar to Combustion). That's how it looked. Today, no zoom, buttons of same size, but same layout, which makes that specific mass. Drag and drop almost does not exist. Outliner is converted from schematic view to list, few years ago, but multi - selection is still rectangle-over-list. Design does not fit into 21 century.
- Cycles is great for overnight renders by hobbyists, but too slow for everyday work. Old 'internal' renderer is totally old, full of inconsistencies.
- Only 3d app running on Open GL 1, there's good chance to do not run at all, on new graphic cards in next few years.

Great news is, problems were recognized by 'the management', it seems there is some work in progress - now we can only wait and hope...

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Mathaeus
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Re: Blender development and softimage

Post by Mathaeus » 07 Mar 2015, 04:26

FXDude wrote: -If they take anything from soft, I would hope it would be the concept of 'Groups' or somehow adding measn to apply common properties to many elements, select them (while perhpas moving away from the 20 unamed layer system)
and also means to batch change settings.
'Group' already exist in Blender, with this name, it is hierarchy independent, but it's not related to rendering. More it's related to selection and properties, for example, members of rigid body simulation.
Poly modeling is close to SI, actually somewhere in between SI and Max.
One typically SI feature is ability to read global transform as local in expressions and key-framing - 'apply visual transform' applies constrained transform, back to local SRT key (btw, this is impossible in Houdini, at least without scripting).
Blender animation mixer is simplified, compared to SI. Takes SRT from one object, where bones in 'armature' are sub-objects. Local action have precedence over mixer animation. 'Action' is separate black of data, linked to object - so, copy animation is loading the action on another object, making action local, if needed.
Blender is old 3d app, I believe it was heavy influenced by Softimage 3d, like probably anything else from these times.

nodeway

Re: Blender development and softimage

Post by nodeway » 07 Mar 2015, 10:48

Mathaeus wrote: One typically SI feature is ability to read global transform as local in expressions and key-framing - 'apply visual transform' applies constrained transform, back to local SRT key (btw, this is impossible in Houdini, at least without scripting).
Can you record what you are talking about?
Just by reading about it I can't figure out what you are talking about, but it sounds a little like if you would like to read some animation, send it to CHOPS, modify it and send it back to the object.

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Mathaeus
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Re: Blender development and softimage

Post by Mathaeus » 07 Mar 2015, 15:50

mantragora wrote:
Mathaeus wrote: One typically SI feature is ability to read global transform as local in expressions and key-framing - 'apply visual transform' applies constrained transform, back to local SRT key (btw, this is impossible in Houdini, at least without scripting).
Can you record what you are talking about?
Just by reading about it I can't figure out what you are talking about, but it sounds a little like if you would like to read some animation, send it to CHOPS, modify it and send it back to the object.
As far as I know, in four or five 3d apps, constraint is override of existing SRT, so it can be weighted.
In Maya and SI, setting the key on object, having a full weighted constraint, actually bakes the global transform, down to local function curves. Even in Maya, complete process could be done without even knowing about nodes or another underlying structure.
Even it's probably not ideal method - it's easy and fast to, also it's reliable. So, many simple everyday actions rely on that.
Once another system is suggested like Houdini Blend SOP, or no-weight, additive constrain, or maybe any node at all - this is, somehow like having to solve the crosswords, to open the door of toilet.
There are some signs of putting the CHOPs less visible for animators in v14, for example,when creating animation layers, H says somewhere, something like 'do not do that by connecting CHOP nodes'. But 'hiding system' is far from closed, imho.
Btw I think H is going realistic, step by step. They added crowds, as an typical procedural animation. New animation layers system seems to be good for mixing the imported animation. And so on.

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