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 Post subject: Dear Autodesk
PostPosted: 29 Apr 2012, 20:39 
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Joined: 06 Jun 2011, 03:08
Posts: 102
Dear Autodesk,

It's been a while since I posted my wishlist for Softimage to further grow and improve as a 3D application. Since you obviously don't pay attention to what the end users want, and since SI 2013 was a joke, I decided to make some more noise so that hopefully you might stop thinking in numbers and start thinking in an innovative manner towards your next release.

Below is a list of tools and updates that are yet to be seen:

1 - The Image Clip Viewer (Alt + 6) still has limited features. I cannot zoom in manually, pan, or resize the imported image to my liking. I'm still constrained to the limited options available from the right click menu.


2 - I still don't see a real size measurement s.ystem. Wouldn't it be nice if we had the ability to measure objects in centimeters, inches, foot, meters ...etc ? Oh right .... I forgot, 3D Max and Maya already have those features, so I just need to spend more money and purchase the Suite edition and invest more time into learning more major 3D applications. Smart move.


3 - Lattice like controls to the UV maps in the Texture Editor.


4 - A new, user friendly ICE based hair s.ystem. I'm sure that won't kill you.


5 - A real HQ view port. Seriously, what were you thinking when you released the existing HQ view port in SI 2013 ? Why waste resources on a half finished product when you could do so much more improvements to other ends ?


6 - Why do you have only 4 or 5 developers for SI ? Would it kill you to double or triple the current amount of developers ? With all the crazy prices you're charging, I'm sure you can afford to come up with a bigger budget.


7 - The implemented SI Auto rigger needs to be removed and changed completely to a more flexible rig. Why not create a new ICE based auto rigger ? Oh right, I need to do it myself. You know what, why don't I build the entire SI application for you so that I could buy it off you once it's released.


8 - I still don't get why I can't import .3ds files into SI. Especially when you're aiming to create a trio Suite solution for 3D users.


9 - How bout adding instant Gamma correction to your render previews ? This would be a huge time saver against having to wait for SI to re-render the entire subject again for a small change to the existing Gamma controllers. And no, I don't want to do it in the FX Tree, I want to do it instantly during the production phase in my veiwport.


Those are just some of my concerns. I'm sure other SI users have plenty more to say. I think 3D Max and Maya have reached good heights in the industry and have more than enough developers. I don't understand why you have to give so much attention to something that's already doing well in the market.

Why do you have to make me feel like an idiot with the ridiculous amount of money I have to put into your products through your useless subscription based pricing s.ystem ? You have SI, a glowing gem with so much potential that could revolutionize the industry and yet you give it very little attention simply because you run after numbers. How about investing more into Softimage and taking an entrepreneurial path (which I'm sure you're capable of) to further develop it. How bout giving SI half the attention that it deserves ? Or would you like me to give you some courses on how to run a business ?


Just my two cents,
XSI Fanatic


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 Post subject: Re: Dear Autodesk
PostPosted: 30 Apr 2012, 09:37 
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Location: warsaw
1 - 5 yeah...all point valid
6 - how did you get this number?
8 - this format is outdated...im surprised people still using it
9 - I think your workflow I flawed...LFW in xsi is very simple and straightforward. Can you be more specific about a problem?

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 Post subject: Re: Dear Autodesk
PostPosted: 30 Apr 2012, 14:48 
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origin wrote:
1 - 5 yeah...all point valid
6 - how did you get this number?
8 - this format is outdated...im surprised people still using it
9 - I think your workflow I flawed...LFW in xsi is very simple and straightforward. Can you be more specific about a problem?



6 - I got this number from the long thread that's talking about SI 2013 release and the chinny's team that left the SI dev team.

8 - I didn't know .3ds was outdated. My intention was to import 3D Max files easily. If you look at 3D objects online at Turbosquid and such, most of the compatibility is aimed for 3D Max. That's the only reason I'm asking for .3ds or whatever else that could work for 3D Max common formats.

9 - If you generate a render preview in Cinema 4D or Vue Xstream, after the rendering is done, you can adjust the gamma instantly without having to re-render your subject. It may not be equivalent to the final result, but a nice lower quality control sample like the one in C4D or Vue is not a bad idea to have in your render region.

Btw, can you elaborate with the LWF, I just to be sure we're talking about the same thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Dear Autodesk
PostPosted: 30 Apr 2012, 15:20 
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Joined: 22 Jun 2009, 00:08
Posts: 808
the number of dev is bullsh*t. 5 is the number of people chun pong listed by name in his mail, not the whole dev team.


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 Post subject: Re: Dear Autodesk
PostPosted: 30 Apr 2012, 22:52 
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Joined: 12 Apr 2011, 20:28
Posts: 10
.3ds was the file format for 3D Studio for DOS. It was replaced in 1996 with the release of 3d Studio Max 1.0. As far as I know, it's hardly ever used anymore (at least in my industry).


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 Post subject: Re: Dear Autodesk
PostPosted: 01 May 2012, 11:33 
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Location: warsaw
hmm I never adjusted gamma in my projects

For few years my workflow is the same, in short
setup gamma 2.2,
linearize textures, except for hdr's, or the ones that goes to bump/displacement etc
render to (linear) Exr
do the rest in Nuke, working from start to end in linear.

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 Post subject: Re: Dear Autodesk
PostPosted: 01 May 2012, 17:24 
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Joined: 06 Jun 2011, 03:08
Posts: 102
origin wrote:
hmm I never adjusted gamma in my projects

For few years my workflow is the same, in short
setup gamma 2.2,
linearize textures, except for hdr's, or the ones that goes to bump/displacement etc
render to (linear) Exr
do the rest in Nuke, working from start to end in linear.


what do you mean by linearize textures ?


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 Post subject: Re: Dear Autodesk
PostPosted: 01 May 2012, 19:52 
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Joined: 12 Jan 2010, 16:51
Posts: 389
Location: Chicago, IL
Hi xsi_fanatic,

I am going to write a beefed-up version of what the previous guys mentioned in summary form - this might help a little better to understand LWF.


1.) Go to File>Preferences>Display - go to the Color Management tab.

Here is where you set up Softimage to use a Color Profile (LWF- gamma adjusted) to aspects of Softimage. In the “Apply To” section, I check all of the boxes available to me. (There is a new one now for FXTree, so I haven’t looked into that yet). This will set up Softimage to work in LWF (Linear Work Flow). You will also now notice that on your “color chips” you will see a “marquee” style hash line that goes around the boxes. That signifies that those colors are now setup for LWF as well, which is important.

2.) Go to File>Preferences>Rendering - go to the Images tab.

Color Profile - Linear (Default)
Gamma 2.2

Here you will find a setting for Color Profile. This tells Softimage what Color Profile to use when accessing images during rendering. I believe the Default is set to Linear, which is what I use and I think works the best. Some people have this set to “Automatic,” but then you are leaving it to Softimage to decide on how to handle certain image files. By leaving this set to Linear, you are essentially telling Softimage to put all accessed image files into a Linear Color Profile. This is what you want to have happen, and work with, for pretty much any image that will not be used as a Diffuse image for your objects. Such as, Bumps, Displacements, Specs, HDRIs, etc, will want to keep them as Linear.

Now, when you have a texture that is going to be used as a Diffuse - I.E. the color map for an object, you want that to be in Color Profile - sRGB. How to change this, is when you are working with your Diffuse Texture, go into the Images PPG when you are in the Render Tree. Next, go to the “Adjust” tab for that texture. In that panel you will now see a section for Color Profile. This, as Default, will be matched to what you have this set to in the Preferences (Linear by Default). Now, go to the Dropdown and change it to sRGB. You have to do this for all of your Diffuse/color textures that you use, there is a way to do more of them at one time, if need be, but I don’t want to confuse anyone right now with extra information.

The above basically sets you up now to work in LWF. You can now add your Exposure Shader into the Pass Shaders (keep your gamma set to 1 (default) in the Exposure Shader if you have all of your Display boxes "checked," like I mentioned above, since the gamma is already being added via the Display Preferences - otherwise your image will be washed out) and use the Preview button to see your setup and adjust accordingly.

Important: After you set everything up and you are happy with how it looks, and your next step is to render to final; if you want the gamma to be “baked” in, so it will basically look like what you have on the screen, make sure you check the “Apply Display Gamma Correction” box in the Output area of the Render Manager. (It usually sits in the middle panel near the bottom.) This will render your image as you see it on your screen. If you do not want the gamma “baked” in, then do not check that box. Leaving this unchecked is the preferred way to work in LWF. It will render out your image darker (basically stripping out the added gamma), then however you add that back in, in post.

For FXTree, or any post compositing software, do all of your color adjustments first, then at the very end of your tree is where you add your gamma adjustment node. You can use a Color Correct node or an HSVAdjust, or some others to do this in the FXTree. I find the HSVAdjust works easiest as they are all grouped nicely together in the “basics” area. Here is where you will set your final desired gamma settings (~2.2) for the R/G/B channels. Then send it out to process and you are all done.

I hope this better explains it for you. I wrote it out long also, so others can see as well in case someone else is having an issue with his.

Hope this helps.

Edit: Adjusted the Exposure Shader gamma statement after reading Max's response on the following page - I forgot to put that in when I first wrote it up. Thanks Max for mentioning that scenario.

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Last edited by Rez007 on 02 May 2012, 16:58, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Dear Autodesk
PostPosted: 01 May 2012, 20:45 
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Joined: 09 Jun 2009, 11:02
Posts: 677
Location: Montreal Canada
xsi_fanatic wrote:
origin wrote:
hmm I never adjusted gamma in my projects

For few years my workflow is the same, in short
setup gamma 2.2,
linearize textures, except for hdr's, or the ones that goes to bump/displacement etc
render to (linear) Exr
do the rest in Nuke, working from start to end in linear.


what do you mean by linearize textures ?


Hi

I believe he means you need to de-gamma the textures (remove any gamma-correction). They should not have gamma applied to them.

Here's a nice little slide set
http://www.pixsim.co.uk/downloads/The_Beginners_Explanation_of_Gamma_Correction_and_Linear_Workflow.pdf

Thanks

Autodesk

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// "You're not a runner, you're just a guy who runs" -- my wife
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Last edited by xsisupport on 02 May 2012, 13:29, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Dear Autodesk
PostPosted: 01 May 2012, 23:43 
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Joined: 06 Jun 2011, 03:08
Posts: 102
Rez007 wrote:
Hi xsi_fanatic,

I am going to write a beefed-up version of what the previous guys mentioned in summary form - this might help a little better to understand LWF.


1.) Go to File>Preferences>Display - go to the Color Management tab.

Here is where you set up Softimage to use a Color Profile (LWF- gamma adjusted) to aspects of Softimage. In the “Apply To” section, I check all of the boxes available to me. (There is a new one now for FXTree, so I haven’t looked into that yet). This will set up Softimage to work in LWF (Linear Work Flow). You will also now notice that your “color chips” you will see a “marquee” style hash line that goes around the boxes. That signifies that those colors are now setup for LWF as well, which is important.

2.) Go to File>Preferences>Rendering - go to the Images tab.

Color Profile - Linear (Default)
Gamma 2.2

Here you will find a setting for Color Profile. This tells Softimage what color profile to use when accessing images during rendering. I believe the Default is set to Linear, which is what I use and I think works the best. Some people have this set to “Automatic,” but then you are leaving it to Softimage to decide on how to handle certain image files. By leaving this set to Linear, you are essentially telling Softimage to put all accessed image files into a Linear Color Profile. This is what you want to have happen, and work with, for pretty much any image that will not be used as a Diffuse image for your objects. Such as, Bumps, Displacements, Specs, HDRIs, etc, will want to keep them as Linear.

Now, when you have a texture that is going to be used as a Diffuse - I.E. the color map for an object, you want that to be in Color Profile - sRGB. How to change this, is when you are working with your Diffuse Texture, go into the Images PPG when you are in the Render Tree. Next, go to the “Adjust” tab for that texture. In that panel you will now see a section for Color Profile. This, as Default, will be matched to what you have this set to in the Preferences (Linear by Default). Now, go to the Dropdown and change it to sRGB. You have to do this for all of your Diffuse/color textures that you use, there is a way to do more of them at one time, if need be, but I don’t want to confuse anyone right now with extra information.

The above basically sets you up now to work in LWF. You can now add your exposure shader into the Pass Shaders and use the Preview button to see your setup and adjust accordingly.

Important: After you set everything up and you are happy with how it looks, and your next step is to render to final; if you want the gamma to be “baked” in, so it will basically look like what you have on the screen, make sure you check the “Apply Display Gamma Correction” box in the Output area of the Render Manager. (It usually sits in the middle panel near the bottom.) This will render your image as you see it on your screen. If you do not want the gamma “baked” in, then do not check that box. Leaving this unchecked is the preferred way to work in LWF. It will render out your image darker (basically stripping out the added gamma), then however you add that back in, in post.

For FXTree, or any post compositing software, do all of your color adjustments first, then at the very end of your tree is where you add your gamma adjustment node. You can use a Color Correct node or an HSVAdjust, or some others to do this in the FXTree. I find the HSVAdjust works easiest as they are all grouped nicely together in the “basics” area. Here is where you will set your final desired gamma settings (~2.2) for the R/G/B channels. Then send it out to process and you are all done.

I hope this better explains it for you. I wrote it out long also, so others can see as well in case someone else is having an issue with his.

Hope this helps.


Rez,

Thank you for clearing that up for me. I guess this is the magic formula that I was looking for all this time. I just never knew what it was called. I always felt that there was something missing with the default renders generated by SI. However it all makes sense now :)

Thanks again,
XF


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