What if Softimage died?

[angus_davidson]

Eric is right... Even though I am preparing videos of a particular AD executive with devil horns tracked to their head (keeping it for myself and close friends for right now)... And the last product manager repeating...the future of softimage is bright...the future of softimage is bright...the future of softimage is bright...the future of softimage is bright...the future of softimage is bright... even I am that amazingly pissed right now, the only sane thing to do is weigh our options. And Maya might be the only sane one. I hope for the love of god there are some transition tutorials made in a jiffy.

While I despise AD right this second (well most of the time), Maya is the most viable option ATM. Our studio is has been a softimage house for 20 years. It will take us some time to transition, but there just is not another viable option RIGHT now for character animation. I am sure I will not like it in many ways, I hope I am pleasantly surprised ..paint effects always looked awesome ... but for god sake at least I will have we decent view port:(

Even if the rumors are true. its still going to be 2-3 years before folks will transition. The bigger softimage shops will most likely hold on the longest as they are not as agile when it comes to pipelines.

Looking at the non AD options I am familiar with.

Houdini. Modelling is currently its major weakness. if Softimage was EOL I would expect them to rectify that fairly quickly in order to gain market share. It would also help them combat the thread of BiFrost which is a direct competitor to its major strength. Houdini could buy Silo for example and bundle it with Houdini.

Blender: Has three major things going for it. One you cant beat free when it comes to cost and two its already solid and is attracting external renderers and three it has very active development with a very well defined roadmap. Dont like a feature or need another , put in a submission to the development roadmap. Also if subscription monies that were going to Softimage subscriptions was redirected to Blender projects you could very quickly get what you need. The new UI looks promising as well.

Modo: People tend to forget that Modo has only recently become an all around offering. If you take Softimage out of the equation its hands down the best modeler. Meshfusion will also get many people to rethink the way they do things. Their newer tools, ie Animation and Particles are solid but have a lot more still to be done. In two years time will it be able to compete on all aspects, most certainly. They also have tight integration with The Foundaries other tools on their side. Nuke and Modo will have the potential to full what AD never allowed the FX tree and the rest of Softimage to do.

So no i dont think Maya is the only option, and definitely not at the medium to smaller studios / freelancer level where most of the power of Maya is wasted anyway. Also once companies break trust its very difficult to keep dealing with them. Which is why they might not totally EOL it. they need more time to get folks to move.

[benoit81]

Hello,
When I arrived at the office this morning and read the opinion of Eric, and then open Softimage... I feel uncomfortable. While I agree with him, but it does not please me !
I'm just afraid that with this kind of statement, third party editor will stop developing for Softimage even sooner as they predicted. Maybe editors such as Solid Angle, Octane or Redshift earn money with Softimage, and make users happy ? Even if it's temporary, they help making Softimage better. Since 4 years, I do not wait anything from Autodesk in the field of Softimage. I suppose that the user base is something like 1000-2000 seats (only 100 users have answer this poll), and it's not enough for enhancing the product (they bought it something like 30 millions $). They should have never been allowed to buy it.

Eric opinion is pure logic. But in today's world nothing is logical, we do not know what the future will bring. Autodesk stopping Media & Entertainment branch ? They realize that they can make money in selling product to a competitor ? They buy Exocortex Clara.io and stop Maya/Max/Soft ....
Have a good day !

PS : sorry for bad english, but there is no french forum for softimage...

[Firebird]

What I miss here a bit is the view for small shops.

Not everywhere you got 20 TD´s, a modeling department, Animation dep, lighting dep and so on, and be able to use the tool that fits best,and if you dont got it, buy it.
Thats not an option.

I use Softimage on a daily basis for commercials, Flyers,Motion Graphics, Product Shots and what not and even again a documentary with alot of full CGI Shots, show me that in maya, as a single person.

I was able to pull of 25 mins of animation a couple of years ago started with XSI 5.0, it was nearly fully Out of the Box and thats the point. The only thing needed was BA Volume pack.
We even got included with 2 pictures in the Softimage installer For XSI 7.01 or so, again no big pipeline, no writing of custom tools and still I saw a picture of the Mill then mine then Blur Studios while installing the newest Softimage.

We upgraded our lic to the Entertainment Creation Suite or whatever,simply because it was a really cheap offer, and I disliked it back then being seen as Maya entertainment Suite user, no I am not, im Softimage, Mudbox, Motionbuilder user. And I still think thats where the "counted Softimage seats" disappeared.
And now I got Softimage and nearly all of Eric Mootz tools (with a price tag way lower then most plugins for other DCC´s, but a work flow that just feels like its part of the Software) and as a big big plus a hell lot of free compounds from the great community and guess what even If we got Maya I never needed to open it to get the job done.

And I saw alot of smaller projects where they got Maya and Nuke because the big Studios are using it and it was simply overkill, for the tasks.

And if then in 5 years I have to use a different tool because SI cant keep up anymore, It for sure wont be an Autodesk Product.

To sum it up not everything is about big pipeline, passing data along between departments ,platform independent, Mobile access, Cloud Nirvana and what not.
Its about getting a task, building the scene, send to the render, deliver. Done.
And thats just way more intuitive and fun in Softimage.

[angus_davidson]

What I miss here a bit is the view for small shops.

Not everywhere you got 20 TD´s, a modeling department, Animation dep, lighting dep and so on, and be able to use the tool that fits best,and if you dont got it, buy it.
Thats not an option.

I use Softimage on a daily basis for commercials, Flyers,Motion Graphics, Product Shots and what not and even again a documentary with alot of full CGI Shots, show me that in maya, as a single person.

Its about getting a task, building the scene, send to the render, deliver. Done.
And thats just way more intuitive and fun in Softimage.

Unfortunately the small shops are normally not relevant to the corporate roadmap. Especially true with Softimage. Max is the one exception purely because of the amount of licenses has a compelling financial momentum of its own. Once Softimage is EOL I feel the next step will be some sort of Architectural spin of maya and then max will be EOL as well. Only having one codebase makes overwhelming financial sense.

if its confirmed (and just to reiterate nothing official has been announced yet) Softimage will be the litmus strip for this process.

[Cacoman]

Its about getting a task, building the scene, send to the render, deliver. Done.
And thats just way more intuitive and fun in Softimage.

That is absolutley right.

The major point IMHO is what is happening with the VFX, 3D animation world, that actually has nothing to do with softwares or pipelines.

How many room for big studios is now? Day after day, budgets get cheaper, more and more people open studios here and there and the project is not get always by the best, but who can deliver on time and at the lower price.

Artists from different cities and countries are starting to collaborate together for a job that will be delivered in some other city or country. Artists working from their homes to get the job done. Grab a modeler here, an animator there, someone proficient with particles/fluids a comp guy, and now you have a team to deliver work that does not necesarily needs to be gathered in one physical location.

Clients even in the same location ask for Quicktimes to review the work and deliveries in tape or negative, now are seldom required.

Recently a production house for which I was the onset supervisor for a very intesive VFX TV commercial after calling a wrap, asked me to be their post producer for the project. They already have assigned the project to a studio in another country.

Did I care about what software they are using to deliver? Of course not. All I care is that they deliver on time and with the quality expected.

When I work as an artist for other clients, they don't care if I use Nuke, After Effects or Jar Jar Binks to bring me my morning coffee before I start to work. As far as I deliver on time and with the quality they are expecting from me, not the software I am using.

What I care about is a tool that will allow me to be fast and creative with my work. Most of the time I found my self modeling, rigging, animating etc. So I need an efficient tool, not a one that I need to go under the hood to try to find out why some setup that was working is not working anymore.

And that is the case of Softimage vs Maya.

I've seen many experienced Maya guys that still struggle with the software, they need to have a very structured path to do things to make sure that after they are done, they don't forget something. After some succesfull setting they instantly save the scene. Going back to fix something is not an easy task, and sometimes is better to start from scratch, or test your setup in a "test object" before applying that setup to the main scene. I personally waiste a lot of time in Maya fixing things that were working, and suddenly I find myself with version number 35 because I learned to save and save in Maya.

So when comments like "take the step to the transition and let it go." Sorry but I can't. A transition to what? To be less efficient in my work? To work in a big studio? To use the crap that ADSK decided that was the path? In my case, don't think so. A true artist uses what he feels that he needs to use, and the tool that he feels comfortable with.

So, I will not leave my tool just because the factory discontinues it. Fortunatley software is what it is and it stays in that state forever. It will not break down, it doesn't need an oil change or new pistons.

If Maya was that tool I wouldn't hesitate to "make the transition". But that is not the case. I know Maya. I have used Maya. I am using Maya, and I simply don't like it. Maybe if Softimage never existed I would be using Maya, but I can assure that I would be looking for something else.

And I don't see the reason why not to start a studio using Softimage if that will make your studio be more proficient, and productive.

Maya needs an army to go to war, while Softimage only needs a squad. So it is perfectly logical that if you are starting something new you will choose what needs less people, works faster and is more reliable. And Softimage even if it is EOL. Is still the perfect choise to start a new studio.

As I said before the guys that pay, really don't care what are you using. They only care about the final result and how much the bill is.

Something that is still in my mind. Why The Mill used Softimage for the PETA commercial instead of Maya. They have both platforms. Why not use Maya?

Why Whiskey Tree used Softimage for Ellysum? Why Animal Logic used Softimage for the Lego movie to rig and animate if Softimage is a dying software?

Why a small south african studio choose also Softimage to make Zambezia?

One thing I am sure, it is not becuase they are fanatics. My bet is because they believed Softimage was the best tool for the job.

So do I.

I leave you now with this video I made in case you are interested in seeing a regular work session using both softwares to do exactly the same thing.

This is not intended to be a tutorial.

Maybe I could have saved like a couple of minutes on the Maya side as I tried to speed up in Maya to make the video shorter. It lasts around 24 minutes, so it is a long one. Just in case you are willing to watch. But if not I will say that from the 24 minutes is around 6/7 minutes from when I started to work in Softimage and 16/17 minutes in Maya.

[NNois]

this is fucking depressing,
I've been there for 20 years, 10 years ago when lightwave team desintegrated we transition to XSI, a step up !
But now i have to transition to maya ? a step down ? no thanks, following the mass ? no thanks, iterating slower ? no thanks, with the amount of work we have, so deeply passionated, so integrated in our life... let's face it, maya isn't and will and never be as cool as XSI, even with an army of programmers, i think i'll quit and be a plumber in just a week.

Modo ? yearrr with at least an history stack please ? oups no... and devs says it's just not possible and will never be.
Houdini ? yearr with facility for fast work, really small team etc ? oups no... i don't think i's the purpose of houdini, i'm right ?
Clarisse ? yearr but this covers just 30% of the work here...
Fabric engine ? yearr, who is taking the building blocks to make a usable application for artists ?

3dwillneverbethesame.com is a great idea... nobody knows an xsi french buveurs de bierre group ?

[Nizar]

Hey Mr. Pooby, if you'll open your own studio I can travel the world for work with you!

About the different choice, all depending by the work you want do. I'm pretty sure I'll use my 2014 for very long time, but in the meantime I trying and use other software.

Hope my experience can help someone:
I struggle with modo from release 201 (only the trial period), and extensively in the last two years (last days of 501 and all 601 and 701 period), well, you need to customize it a lot, understanding the damn action centre, absurd falloff (over complicated) and tedious snapping system (and all remain annoying even you had learned it), customizing it a lot with your own piemenu and shortcuts and using toolpipe box a lot, also use many scripts and macros done willing users (Etera and Seneca in particular) , after this, you can turn back modelling in softimage because is really better. Modo modelling tools is, for major parts only hype (and are attractive only for LW and Maya users). Passing away the rigging and animation tools (but the tool puting the joints exctly in the center of your geometry is nice). Rendering is really nice, well done and work very fast, an interesting hybrid biased/unbiased (you need to activated unbiased on preview window, strange, as many tools and workflow in modo). Also forget the freedom given you by softimage, in modo you can doing things only in one way and follow the predicted workflow, period

Blender is a strange beast. differently to modo (who want be the alternative to all), blender obligate to adapt totally to his logic. You can cage the most obvious and annoying (like left mouse selection, confirm on release, advise you if quit without saving etc.), but if you try to cage other things, like blender shourtcut you can have some bad surprise (instability ). So, need to struggle with it and learn all the shortcuts (and practical every tools in blender has a default shortcut). After learn it, and adapted, you will find a very fast modeller (comparable to softimage) and found some things, like 3d cursor, very helpful. The software has a logic, need to understood it, also is very stable and with a consistence workflow. Very good rendering, simple and a joy to use, if you have a good VGA (better two, one for the viewport and one for the rendering computing) cycles is very fast, with a progressive preview very useful. Rigging and shinning also are very fast, well done, riggify (a free addon) is a good autorigging system, very nice and can be edited and customize as you need, in animation side need only Animation Layer. The beast blender feature is the possability to doing all inside it (the entire process, modelling, rendering, texture, compositing, paint texture, unwrap etc.). Blender is the only one I have tried who remember me softimage, because can find different solution for the some task, without an overcomplicated or constrictive workflow.

Lightwave: well, for me modelling is pita. The worse part is workflow in general, really don't like. Like the rendering side, very simple, but is not good and simple like modo. TBH I used it only a month, and found it very old and fragmented.

Houdini... only tried the modelling side. Really, a bad workflow for me, I tried it for two month, cannot finish a single project (modelling) inside it.

Note I need a software for modelling and rendering. I don't animate or create special effects. I'm in the 3d printing field and illustration.

About maya, tbh I know some guys using it and only for their work and they are very proficient and are great artist. IMHO, is only a matter of habit.

[Nizar]

@Cacoman, seems Maya users are pretty sure is the contrary:
http://mayavxsi.blogspot.it/

[MauricioPC]

I don't think Modo is such an option since it's not as stable, it has only one "workflow" and there's some restrictions on it's development (like Modifier/Operator Stack). Every time I use Modo, it crashes a lot.

Houdini could be a option, but only if you have a side modeler app to do the major work. In any case, I like the approach of thinking in it, similar to Softimage. People say it's animation capabilities are good, but I never used. But cloth and Fur are great and dynamics in general.

Blender can always be of assistance since it's free. Doesn't cost you to have it around for some tasks.

Cinema 4D is super-stable, but super slow for animation. Can create some nice fluids FX with TurbulenceFD. I would better count it as a good assistant to Softimage.

And Maya ... of course that there are artists that create great work with it. Like there are tons of character modelers creating amazing characters in 3ds Max. But that doesn't mean that the software is perfect or good. We are talking here of good options and a improvement in the workflow ... not to downgrade. I say that because I'm using it on a training that I'm doing and while I like what I'm creating, I don't like how I'm creating.

Truth is, if you wanna work for others/studio, you'll need Maya, period. If you want to be the kind of freelance that delivers the shots done, than you can have your pick. Today I'm gearing more to the second option as working for this new studios seems like work in a factory. And if for that Softimage can continue to deliver, I'll keep studying it and learning it. I'll maybe put something to help me do some logo/type/crazy sh*t in the side (like C4D) or only work with animation and crazy destruction (than that would be Houdini).


The first software I learned was 3ds Max and I could go back ... but, since it's all AD and it appears 3ds Max will go the same route, there's no reason for it.

@Cacoman, seems Maya users are pretty sure is the contrary:
http://mayavxsi.blogspot.it/

This guy is very biased. I wouldn't count it as the definitive comparison (IMO). I'm not saying he's not good.

[angus_davidson]

@Cacoman, seems Maya users are pretty sure is the contrary:
http://mayavxsi.blogspot.it/

Yeah he pretty much got laughed off the stage to the point where he only complete the rigging part of the vs

[Mootzoid]

For what it's worth:
I will continue developing and updating my plugins for Softimage regardless of what Autodesk does.

[sonictk]

For what it's worth:
I will continue developing and updating my plugins for Softimage regardless of what Autodesk does.

For what it's worth; I'm going to continue animating/modeling my own personal stuff in XSI whenever I find it benefits my workflow!

Wait, now my statement sounds a lot less impressive than it would have been...

[Bullit]

For what it's worth:
I will continue developing and updating my plugins for Softimage regardless of what Autodesk does.

Great Eric.

[punchatz]

For what it's worth:
I will continue developing and updating my plugins for Softimage regardless of what Autodesk does.

Its worth A LOT !!! THANKS MOOTZ

[mc_axe]

IF we take a look in a imaginary evolvment graph (development wise)of the top 2 platforms in the game Si and Maya , AD had a major negative impact on both of them at the same time. Like a crysis happened or something. This evolving gape is so large that it will be be refered in the history.. of CGI ..as a paradigm to avoid. 1 company owned the top 2 competitors,, antagonism died at that time,, i know a drunk fella 3 centuries back that predicted more or less the same thing ...

Today we talk about rumors of SI death..

Im gonna lauch a creative campaing of hate.. if this gets confirmed, im holding fire.

[angus_davidson]

For what it's worth:
I will continue developing and updating my plugins for Softimage regardless of what Autodesk does.

;)